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 Replies: 62 / Views: 8,244 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5404 Posts |
NGC is where it needs to be. The one thing that certification does is takes the emotions out of the equation. I highly doubt that anyone here is questioning your intregity especially those of us who know and respect you.
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Welcome to CCF lccoinsltd,
Remember that this is the internet; sometimes sarcasm is never perceived and sometimes you just need thicker skin, as some folks find things easy to type that they would never say directly to your face...
When I go to Victoria in the fall, I'll make a point of visiting your shop.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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New Member
Canada
4 Posts |
Thanks...I'm sorry but I won't be able to make the Vancouver show this weekend. I would think we would have the coin back from NGC for the Sept. show. It is an interesting coin and it will be interesting to see what NGC does. We have only had a coin returned once in 5 years and I am always willing to refund someone if they are not happy with their purchase.
Edited by lccoinsltd
06/13/2014 7:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts |
 ..lccoinsltd. We're glad to have you aboard here at CCF and look forward to your input. As you mentioned you have a few pages of other possible error coins, if your not sure that they're errors please feel free to post them here. Many fine experts here just waiting for the next good post. |
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Valued Member
Australia
369 Posts |
I know how you feel Icc. I think there are more knockers than genuine error collectors around so certification is the only thing you can do. There is no doubt in my mind it is genuine and would be interested in what NGC say. Mind you if they dismiss it I wouldn't believe them anyway.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
Quote:HI All...I thought I would join in since there are a couple of people, who I have never met or communicated with, that are judging my ethics, integrity, and knowledge of coins. I have recently bought a collection from an individual that had two pages of possible error coins. I have never claimed to be an expert on errors so I decided in fairness to this individual, that I would handle the error coins on a consignment basis. A listed a couple of obvious clips on ebay and this one particular 1961 50 cent coin. We believed we took clear pictures and gave the best description possible. I have now removed this coin from ebay and will send it in to NGC for certification and see what they think. It is an interesting coin and what throws me off as far as if it was squeezed or altered post mint, is the fact that the doubling of the date is raised not incuse. I have sent pictures off to people that collect and deal in errors for their opinion. I have showed it to numerous people here in the store, and tonight it will be passed around at our local Numismatic Society's meeting for opinions. Quote:
Which brings me to my second question. I am certainly not a professional in this field.. not in grading nor in dealing ... but the seller of this coin has a B&M store as well as an e-bay store..
So is this a dealer that has just made a professional error in judgement or is this a dealer that's trying to pass something over on people..
I generally hate to judge a person with out knowing them... but in an instant like this I would not buy anything from this person's store or web business as I'm already a skeptic to their business practices. lccoinsltd: I stand by what I have said. I generally hate to judge someone without knowing them... in this business like many others you're only as good as your word and reputation.. unfortunately within this hobby there are many that sell fakes, garage jobs and so many other things other than a good quality legit coin. You yourself said you are not that knowledgeable in errors, which brings me to the question... If you were unsure about the coin why would you put it out there with your store name behind it UNTIL you were sure? In my opinion there are enough things going on with this coin that unless you are really well versed in errors the coin should probably get it certified prior to sale... Anything less and you are certainly putting your own reputation at risk as others may have the same train of thought as I. I will honestly state that when it comes to this coin I am a skeptic that it's a legit error.. but in all honesty my opinion means little and you will get this back from being graded and that's all that will matter. I have had the honour to meet and talk with many dealers.. most have been coin enthusiasts that simply have made some great connections and have an overwhelming personal collection that it just made sense to start selling their coins. Almost every dealer I have ever had the privilege of sitting down with and talking to about their coins has been very VERY well versed and educated in many aspects of numismatics and they know their coins and the product which they are selling. To be honest I'm very happy to see that you have joined CCF and I hope you become a long standing contributor to this forum. Providing us with pictures of some of the coins you have and the knowledge which you possess. I think you had this listed for $99.00 plus shipping on ebay... To show that I have no hard feelings about you.. and that I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is... if this comes back certified as a struck through cloth error ... If you notify me I will B.I.N. this from you at the previously listed price plus shipping. Edited by AgCoinAu
06/13/2014 10:44 pm
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New Member
Canada
4 Posts |
I agree that listing this coin on ebay without knowing more about it was an error in judgement on my part. I am pretty busy with other matters of running a coin store and we have someone else listing items for us. Ultimately, it is my responsibility to decide what gets listed and at what price, and I take full responsibility for not thinking this one through. I really thought that with proper pictures and description, and a low price, it would be up to the collectors interested in these types of coins to decide what its was worth and what they would pay if they were interested, whether it was done at the mint or after it left the mint. Everyone is welcome to their opinion, I will defend that right always. Again, in looking at the coin, I can see where it has been pressed under great pressure as the coin is larger in diameter than normal. I know what a machine shop has the ability to do to any piece of metal. I just don't understand how the doubling can happen without being incuse if it were done in a vice or press of some sort with another coin. Can someone tell me how that could happen? It will not change my decision, after listening to others' opinions, to have the coin looked at by NGC. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts |
Quote:
Can someone tell me how that could happen? I think it looks like it was fabricated in house with the same die and press used to strike it in the first place. That would explain everything all in one. It may well come back as an error and if it does I wouldn't be surprised.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9867 Posts |
As I said early on in this thread, it was pressed through a piece of screen, more than once. After the first squeeze the piece of screen is impressed with a negative image of the coin and acts as a die, any shifting of the screen on a subsequent squeeze creates doubling.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts |
I pondered that as well as a few other scenario's of design transfer to explain the doubling and the Z but I keep going back to the mint as being the easiest place to do all. You may well be right DBM or maybe we'll never know for sure thats why I was curious as to what other errors came in those 2 pages of possible errors. Are there more like this or?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
The coin was passed around at our Victoria Numismatic Society club meeting last night , and received opinions that it is NOT a real error. One of our experts on errors (who really does spend money on some fantastic errors and is quite respected) gave it the thumbs down. DBM gives the best theory in a previous post. In 42 years of coin dealing I have never seen an error like the coin in this post. I will stick to my professional numismatic opinion that the coin is not legit in any way shape or form, other than to state that it is a well abused and played with "press job" that should go in the melt bucket!
As to the other errors that were passed around last night there were a couple of very nice legitimate pieces shown, including a pretty spectacular capped die cent.
Lcc keep posting , there is a lot of info and knowledge to be gleaned from this site, and you really do not need to be that thick skinned here LOL. The growls are more hurtful than the bites.
Save the 35 bucks to send the coin to NGC and instead through a TIMS coffee party at the shop! Cheers!!
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Quote:
As I said early on in this thread, it was pressed through a piece of screen, more than once. After the first squeeze the piece of screen is impressed with a negative image of the coin and acts as a die, any shifting of the screen on a subsequent squeeze creates doubling. I am also leaning toward this interpretation. This type of "die fabrication" can even be done with a thick piece of hard leather. This type of post mint alteration has been done with US wheat cents for decades, fooling most novice error collectors. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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New Member
Canada
4 Posts |
I get it now about how someone might create a doubling. My wife just reminded me that my brother in law has owned and operated a huge machine shop in Ontario. I might just send it to him and ask how he thinks this might have been done. I can just keep the coin and start an altered coin album for display!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
870 Posts |
ahhhh...the album of shame. lol. welcome to the forum Clay! |
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Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
Quote:
I can just keep the coin and start an altered coin album for display! There is a collector here in Ottawa, with a massive collection of "garage-type" errors. He takes it to coin shows and often shows various collectors just how creative some folks can be... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Replies: 62 / Views: 8,244 |
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Posted 06/13/2014 6:40 pm
