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 Replies: 53 / Views: 5,583 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2480 Posts |
This is indeed worrisome (that Lanz sold what appears to be a fake). Lanz is a very highly respected and honorable numismatist.
The fabric of FR's coin sure looks authentic. If fakes have become that sophisticated, I'm very worried.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
I had a look at the main seller in Germany on the other thread. The negative feedback is dreadful.
I was somewhat puzzled to see that the coin that FR received was so different from the sellers picture. Either he has more than one coin or he has cleaned this one up whilst it was for sale. A very odd thing to do. I would have been really ticked off if I had been bidding on a coin that I wished to clean.
FR after you have had your coffee, might this be something to report on forvmancientcoins? I would also be interested in seeing what other items the seller has to offer?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
TIF look at the feedback for Lanz.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2480 Posts |
Hmm. Well, I did read through the negative comments, using Google Translate when necessary. Almost all of the negative feedbacks were due to unhappiness with shipping time or lost coins. I've heard numerous complaints about lost or delayed coins coming from Germany and have experienced slow transit from there myself.
82 negative comments out of over 56,000, mostly due to shipping problems which aren't the seller's fault. It does sound like communication with Lanz has been suboptimal though.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
There are enough references to "false coin", "counterfeit" etc to make me very wary. When I buy from a new seller I always check the feedback. I expect high sales to have some negatives and I do check them. Sometimes you can see a buyer would leave negative feedback no matter what. And I do disregard comments that are obviously not the fault of the seller. I have one negative feedback. I would hope that a prospective buyer would check it out and see that the comment left is "Good"!
As this is the third bearded Nero to come up, I think that it should be investigated/reported, over to FR.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2480 Posts |
I hope Martin sees this thread and comments. The fabric of FR's coin and the Lanz coin looks so authentic. There's no doubt that some of the die matches are fakes-- see the bright shiny ones in Forvm's Fake Report gallery and in ForgeryNetwork-- but is it possible that the fake die or mold was made from an actual coin and that FR's coin is authentic? Here's another of the type sold by CNG July 9, 2014:  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3446 Posts |
I notice too that the weight is spot on (10.29 grams)
A casting will always loose some weight (around 10%) but mine has no indication of being cast.
Why make such an excellent forgery and allow the weight to be suspect ?
The 'blemish' on the reverse has every appearance of having been caused by BD. The patina appears genuine and to be quite thick too.
I paid a mere $76 for it so I am less than outraged by the transaction. I would expect to pay handsomely for a repro in a museum gift shop !
I am skeptical of the coin but have too many questions at the moment to be certain of what exactly I am holding !
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2480 Posts |
FR-- what is the weight of your coin? In the OP you said 8.82 grams. Was that per seller and did you reweigh it?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3446 Posts |
The weight indicated in the listing is 8.82 grams which is exactly the same I determined (although my cheapo scale fluctuated between 8.81 and 8.82)
I notice now that he incorrectly wrote the obv. legend as being NERO CLAVD CAESAR AVG GER P M TR P IMP P P but that can happen when listing numerous items and using a template.
When I return from my morning rounds I will take a closeup of the 'blemish'
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2100 Posts |
These fakes are struck. Here is a freshly struck example that has had an artifical tone applied.  and onther  These are published "Lipanoff" fakes. This is what it looks like before the tone is applied.  This is not the first coin from this school that I have seen with a convincing patina applied recently. I will illustrate what I mean ... This coin has very convincing sufraces  but comes from these modern dies  |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2100 Posts |
These are not created by casting a real coin or creating transfer dies. These are modern dies that used to strike fakes that are then worn and patinated in order to make them appear ancient.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts |
Is there any test you can do to determine whether the patina is fake or not?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2100 Posts |
We do not know the mathids used to create these patinas. There is a suspiscion that the coins are being acid dipped etc. to accelerate toning and induce verdigris etc. but we just don't know. Unlike some techniques where the the patina is simply painted on, if they learn to accelerate the same processes that would happen in nature then it becomes more and more difficult. We will have to rely on knowledge of the fake dies.
If the coin came from Lanz then I am surprised that they did not recognize the Lipanoff dies that lie beneath that patina. But when the surfaces are so convincing then perhaps it was simply overlooked.
Edited by maridvnvm
09/16/2014 09:13 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2480 Posts |
This is truly frightening.
Martin, does this mean the CNG coin shown several posts up is also a fake?
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Replies: 53 / Views: 5,583 |
First Page
Posted 09/16/2014 06:46 am
