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1971-S Lincoln Memorial Cent Error, Variety, What?

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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2007  10:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I'm old and when such threads drag out I fall asleep. I've heard so many times from some people that a coin has no value. Not sure if these experts go out in the world and look what is what. I go to 2 to 4 coin shows a month and many, many, many of the coins I've heard mentioned as no value on these forums are selling for $'s. If some of you consider a few dollars nothing, then you are wealtheir than the average person, that's for sure.
As to posting that coin on ebay. Have any of you ever watched Jay Leno when he has that segment on items from ebay? I've seen a half eaten donut sell for more than what you think this coin is worth.
No offence to the experts, but they should really get out more.
Constantly telling people NO VALUE is not necessarily so.
Pillar of the Community
foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2007  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do get out there and I am appalled at some of the junk that people are getting away with selling. The people buying the stuff are getting ripped off.

As coppercoins suggests, if you have two people in a transaction, one who is supposed to be an expert and one who doesn't have a clue....

Especially at a coin show..where a dealer is supposed to be the expert and that self acclaimed expert is putting price tags on what any real dealer would tell you is junk....That dealer is being unethical in taking your money.

If an uneducated buyer purchases the junk....It doesn't change the point that they may have paid $2.00 or $3.00 for pocket change only because the dealer put it in a 2X2 and labeled it.

We have our fingers on the pulse of the numismatic market and unfortunately, some dealers are indeed selling junk because there are enough uneducated buyers out there willing to pay for it.

If anyone is paying more than 25 cents for some of the "errors" that have been shown here (Not all but most) then Yes, they agreed upon a price and the item sold. It's still numismatic junk.

If someone pays $5000.00 for a beat up 1972 Ford Pinto with no motor, no glass, no transmission, and no tires. It doesn't mean that the car was worth $5000.00...It just means that the buyer had no idea what he was doing and managed to get himself ripped off.

Experts, whether you want to believe it or not do set the prices on coins, jewelery, antiques, collectible autos etc. The sale happens if a buyer agrees to that value and I understand that. The problem happens when they pay inflated prices for junk , then believe that beacause they paid that price for junk, the junk is worth something.

What is paid for an item still doesn't change the status of junk to something better. Just because people sell junk and other people buy it doesn't mean that the junk ultimately increased in value.

Speaking for myself, I am trying to educate collectors by pointing out what is considered by experts to be numismatic garbage. Ultimately that will save someone the heart ache of someday trying to sell their collection and being told it is worthless.

Everyone is entitled to buy, sell, and collect what they want. People should simply be aware of what has value and what doesn't. It's as simple as that.

Thnaks,
Bill
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2007  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Get out more....hmm...yeah, I should get out more.

I went to FUN in Orlando in January, the ANA in Charlotte in March, and the ANA in Milwaukee in August along with around a dozen other shows this year in Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Memphis, St. Louis, and various places in Kansas, Colorado, Illinois, Missouri, Texas and Arkansas. I have spoken to three coin clubs so far this year, all three in different states -- Kansas, Texas, and Missouri. I was invited back with no pay for a third year to teach people to be numismatists at the ANA Summer Seminar in Colorado Springs after finishing my unpaid week this year - and I will do it if I can afford to leave my work for that long next year. I've only had time to look through 14,500 coins so far this year, I'm usually there by June - I've done 100,000 in a year, but that's a stretch, because every single coin I look at goes under a microscope. That's right, I'm not simply shoveling through piles of coins, I closely inspect every single piece...I guess I should get out more.

I've written three articles that were published in various journals, I wrote the foreword to Q. David Bowers' upcoming book on Lincoln cents, and am working on three books of my own currently. That's all just this year, but I guess I need to get out more.

Forgive me for not knowing enough to call the proper shot as to general accepted value in damaged pocket change and minor stuff I see one of every 100 coins I view. Forgive me for not knowing enough to respond to the 150 queries I receive by email every week. Forgive me for coming here to see people post worthless coins and I call them worthless because I thought that's what they wanted to hear -- the TRUTH.

I guess it would be over the top for me to mention that I have two grading services using my knowledge in grading, authenticating, and/or placing value on coins that do count while weeding out the ones I believe are valueless - and oddly enough they disagree with me far less than people here - I guess they don't know what they are doing either. I guess I couldn't know enough about this subject because I call damaged coins damaged and minor worthless errors minor and worthless. I guess I need to pay attention to more of the bargain bins at the 20 table shows in podunk spots in the middle of nowhere, because that's where the die cracks for $2 are. That's where the laminated 1960 cents for $5 are. That's where the hammered, cut, bent, faked, altered, and damaged "errors" are that so-called dealers found in a baggie they bought and put them in a 2x2 for the first sucker to come along. And fortunately for people gaining education in this hobby that's where they will stay - because they are common, they aren't worth spending money on, and most people listen to that who WANT to learn.

I used to actually bring these coins to the attention of the so-called dealers and let them know what they actually had. I used to let them know exactly what it was, what caused it, and that they would be better off taking the coin out of stock and sending it to the bank. Many of them, if not most of them, were offended that I brought it to their attention - much the same attitude I am getting here. "Never seen one myself, so it must be rare".

Fact of the matter is this, and this is the truth, whether anyone wants to see it or not doesn't matter...

A number of people here are finding the most common types of minor errors that slip through the Mint's process every day. They are finding people's basement workbench experiment coins. They are finding stuff that's been sitting out in the weather and has damage on it. They are finding coins that have been run over by a vehicle. They are finding stuff that is obviously not of value, and keep coming here looking for the minds of those in the know to change, or looking for someone to trip and call a worthless coin a valuable error. It's the same thing over and over and over again, and when people who know the subject say it's nothing, THEY must be the wrong ones because some vest pocket dealer in the middle of Iowa has one on his table at the show for $2...and probably can't sell it. Because some 15 year old kid that wants oddities bids one up on ebay just because it's cool, not because it's something of actual value and the kid recognizes it.

Oh...and as for money....I have none, simple as that. I make around $1500 monthly. If all the crap I'm calling valueless here actually had value, I would be rich. I see this kind of stuff all the time in my searches, yet only yield 20-30 coins a year that have really nice value out of pocket change searches. All the rest of the crap - the die cracks, laminations, damage, and other worthless, common garbage - goes back in the pile for the bank. I find around $500 profit per year looking through coins, and THAT's only because I search through thousands of dollars in pocket change every year, and have since 1980. As it stands, however, I have a hard time affording my $600 house payment each month, I go to garage sales for household goods, and I search for hand-me-downs to clothe my children. I catch crap from my family for doing what I want to do instead of getting some job someplace where I'd make twice as much but I'd hate waking up each morning. I work all the time to educate people in coins...I consider having an evening off to rent a movie a vacation because I work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week on numismatic education, whether it be me learning or me teaching others - part of that being the thankless and payless job I took on here by volunteering to answer people's questions about their coins. And believe me, most of the rest of the job doesn't pay all that well, but I enjoy sharing numismatic education with others...WHEN they want to learn.

I'm guessing Bill (foundinrolls) should get out more too, instead of continuing the column he has had in Coin World for years...maybe he should stop searching through boxes and bags of coins and start finding small town dealers to buy face value coins for a buck each. Maybe he should learn from people who waste hundreds of dollars and countless hours putting worthless coins in flips, pages, and binders so their heirs can sell their collections for face value so some poor dealer can waste even more time breaking the coins out just to take them to the bank.

Yeah...I need to get out more. Forgive me, I'll leave you people alone here so I can get out more.



Edited by coppercoins
09/01/2007 9:28 pm
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livingdinasaur's Avatar
United States
1571 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2007  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingdinasaur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Carman, is the area you are asking about inside the bays, top section? I see that those on the feft end are missing, and assume that is the reason for your question. That effect has to be the result of "polishng ".
It wasn't until I had read other posts, that I (then) noticed the "floating roof" I have seen only one of thos. my son sent me one, asking about it. He later put it on ebay, and got nothing for his efforts.
Dick
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