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Death To The Penny

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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188213 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2014  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The cent is not a tax token. The cent is not needed for sales taxes. Stop confusing cents with percents. They are not the same thing!

Let's do this again and stat the facts...

1. Those who think that sales taxes are the reason why we need (or still have) the cent clearly do not understand how sales taxes work. (Cents versus Percents)

2. Those who think that eliminating the cent will cause people to loose money due to rounding clearly do not understand how rounding works.

3. Those who think we can find a cheaper material to mint the cent clearly do not understand the entire minting and distribution process.

4. Those who think that any reason other than politics is why we still have a cent clearly do not understand US politics! The only reason why we still have the cents is lobbying. If there were a way to kill of the cent and placate the zinc lobby, it would be done tomorrow. Protecting taxpayers from any threat (real or perceived) is the last thing on their mind.


At least we agree on the dollar coin versus the dollar note.
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2014  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If there were a way to kill of the cent and placate the zinc lobby, it would be done tomorrow.
Ah the zinc lobby--do they have an address--can I mail them my corroded Zincolns?
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nalaberong's Avatar
Canada
2805 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2014  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nalaberong to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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US needs to follow the Euro


The Netherlands, Finland, and others have already stopped making 1 and 2 euro-cent coins for circulation, and the euro cent is still worth more than the American cent.
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1325 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2014  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shadz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The cent is not a tax token.


You cannot say this in good faith and good conscious in a topic where many times it is brought up the "buying power" of the cent can you?

a cent is EXACTLY 1 percent of a dollar. ergo the term cent. 1 per cent, means 1 per every 100, or 1/100th. the word was just made one into percent. how long until it becomes perhour in MPH?

taxes are rated per cents. this many how many for each dollar. 10 per cent is 10/100ths, 10% tax rate. a die on the dollar as it were.

CENTury is also of 100. cent 1 of 100...the term cent is only in coinage but math that is older and was adopted by coinage and common language.

1 per cent means one of one hundred, 1/100... this is the value to dollars of the US penny, or ONE CENT coin as it is one of a hundred towards a dollar.

Numismatic etymology...the one about history of words...


is just gets weird in music where cent is 1/12th of 100 ...

to go with your #2 I would say those who believe people would NOT lose money due to rounding is not paying attention to the world and how businesses work///to cheat people and the government out of money. (see 2009 TARP funding)

people are already getting cheated in rounding of taxes as it is WITH the penny, it will only get WORSE without it.

Get out of the politicians that listen to lobbyists playbooks, and check with some economicists about the state of affairs of businesses, or jsut try talking to the telecoomm industry about anything or your local government officials on how things are rounded.

It wasn't a fairy tale joke used in Superman III, but something that actually happens someone noticed to give the character of Richard PRyor in the story to skim those partial cents into over $80,000 per week from ONE company.

Math problem for you.

A business with 1 million customers rounds up on all partial cents. 0.000001 = 0.01. How much money on its daily transactions does it take in? Now how much of that does the IRS ask for since it rounds DOWN cents or even dollars?

Why is the consumer paying taxes that the company keeps?

Don't say this doesn't happen, I deal with it daily. Just go askj the IRS. CONSUMERS lose on rounding, TAXES lose on rounding, the CEOs like Warren Buffet are the only ones that gain from rounding. I think they have enough that if they don't want to use cents/pennies, they should just not use them and until they redistributed their wealth, they should have no say in what othr people are allowed to use. What is next, he will decide that Taco Bell should be the only restaurant left because a franchise war he instigates and back Taco Bell? To that I say Be Well Raymond Cocteau! (or rather John Spartan's or Edgar Friendly's response to "Be well".)
Edited by shadz
12/09/2014 7:57 pm
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Darth Morgan's Avatar
United States
2815 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2014  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Darth Morgan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
shadz- you are one passionate dude.
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Bas S Warwick's Avatar
New Zealand
526 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2014  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bas S Warwick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


If you have 99c will McDonalds let you have a $1 special....more than likely not.....so that little cent can be very important when you dont have it.

That applies to 5c...or even 10c (the smallest coin in NZ - about US8c).


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DoubleEagle20's Avatar
United States
1748 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2014  9:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DoubleEagle20 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Get rid of the cent and nickel, keep the dime, slowly phase out the quarter in favor of a multi sided smaller 50 cent piece and get rid of the $1 bill. All we need are 3 coins, 4 when we go to a $2 coin.
Edited by DoubleEagle20
12/09/2014 9:43 pm
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DoubleEagle20's Avatar
United States
1748 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2014  10:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DoubleEagle20 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW, there is one other coin that is just about as useless as the American cent. The Japanese aluminum 1 yen coin. The only positive of the Japanese 1 yen over our 1 cent coin is that it can float on water.
Edited by DoubleEagle20
12/09/2014 10:43 pm
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BadToTheBone's Avatar
United States
1795 Posts
 Posted 12/09/2014  11:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadToTheBone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unbelievable for those of you who want to get rid of the cent! I will agree that the video makes a convincing argument but for only for those who want to get rid of it. Yes the zinc lobby does have a vested interest in keeping it as well as the copper interest when the cent was all copper. Many and probably most here started collecting cents in the beginning and many a child has collected cents and learned about money through them. Also many of you have seam to have forgot that CENTS MAKE DOLLARS and as Ben Franklin once stated "A Penny saved is a Penny Earned". The government wastes money on many things that are of no use to anyone but the lobbyist and special interest groups. Why not keep every one happy and take the cent out of circulation and only mint it for the collectors. Then if there isn't enough interest then just stop minting it. That way all parties will be happy.
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tkbslc's Avatar
United States
1158 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2014  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tkbslc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I was in charge, we'd just have .1, .5, 1 and 5 dollar coins and $10, $50, $100 and $500 bills. Although with e-payment being the norm, we may not need a $500.

Money is worth 1/10 what it was 60 years ago, time to shift everything up a decimal point. Think of the dime as our new penny, and the $10 bill as our new $1 bill if that makes sense. It all worked 50-60 years ago when the smallest bill was worth $10 and the smallest coin was worth 10 cents now.

Not sure why anyone would have a problem with that other than nostalgia.
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1325 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2014  04:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shadz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The government wastes money on many things that are of no use to anyone but the lobbyist and special interest groups


Yeah, how many decades did the government give someone $40 million per year to study "the uses of wood"?

Its wood, we used to make furnituire out of it, now even paper is in decline except toilet...what else do we need to study that costs $40 million per year to study?

Waste spending is what the Us government does best.

@DE: I just like good math, and we start counting a 1, not 5 or 10. There are too many confused cashiers out there now even with a half that hasnt changed noticeably in decades, and now many don't even know which quarters are made in/for the US and many don't even know dollar coins still exist.

They wouldn't know how to count change without power and most stores keep going when the power goes out. Like the poor cashiers that are so relent on computers to tell them everything to do need something like not counting by 1 which they can do on their fingers?
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ratio411's Avatar
United States
1208 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2014  07:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ratio411 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Long live the cent!

(Now to totally ignore this stupid thread...)
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188213 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2014  09:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
A business with 1 million customers rounds up on all partial cents...
That is your problem and you just do not get it. Rounding after sales tax goes up or down to the nearest, not the highest. When rounding to the nearest five cents, over time, the amount paid evens out.

Cents and percents are not equivalent. Everyone is Charleston SC gets along fine with a 8.5% sales tax and no half cent coin. If the Half Cent really mattered, like you think the cent does, then why not just call it 9%? Because it is not the same!

Places in Canada have decided to round down just to avoid that misconception of being ripped off. There are multiple places where I live that round cash transactions down since they are not paying the EFT fee a card user would cost them. When the cent is gone, rounding down will be the norm here since businesses like happy customers!

You need to understand that eliminating the cent is not going to send the working people to the poor house. If anything, it will make them richer, if only by a few cents from rounding down.

I still love you though.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188213 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2014  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Why not keep every one happy and take the cent out of circulation and only mint it for the collectors
If you search CCF you will see I have said that more than one time.

I also add that the NIFC cent should be bronze.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188213 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2014  09:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Money is worth 1/10 what it was 60 years ago, time to shift everything up a decimal point. Think of the dime as our new penny, and the $10 bill as our new $1 bill if that makes sense. It all worked 50-60 years ago when the smallest bill was worth $10 and the smallest coin was worth 10 cents now.
Correct. We got along fine without a tenth-cent coin when a cent then bought what a dime does now.
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