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 Replies: 53 / Views: 9,424 |
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New Member
South Africa
29 Posts |
Hi Mr Balson, Your reply. Quote:
I have a very clear understanding of the environment at Griquatown at that time - where Stuart had no understanding of this. How you can ignore the environment of the people back then defeats me. What environment are you referring to. Through Legassick's research we know that around 1812, at least 5 years before the Griqua Coinage, the Khoisan herders, in some instances, were paid wages of 6/- to 7/6 per month by the Griquas instead of a portion of the offspring or milk etc. Why ask for cash if there were no understanding of a cash economy. The Kok family, who regularly traded with the Cape Colony, alone had perhaps 45000 (forty five thousand) sheep. I think what you are insinuating is stereotypical, stale and needs updating. Edited by Karel
04/07/2017 2:45 pm
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Valued Member
 Australia
69 Posts |
I am not going to respond to "Karel" who hides behind a non-de-plume.
If he has the courage to reveal who he really is I will happily debate him on this subject.
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5177 Posts |
I suspect his name is really Karel, for what it's worth, but in that case I'm not sure how he could realistically prove it. (Not without breaking site rules, anyway.)
And there's a huge gulf between "none could possibly have circulated at all" and "widely circulating".
Both are probably false as stated, but the latter is likely the only one that can be reasonably proven false (unless maybe some metal detectorist digs up one of the few circulated examples, which is terribly unlikely but theoretically possible), and definitely the only one that can be proven true if by some circumstances it turns out to be so (it almost certainly isn't, of course, but that's beside the point).
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New Member
South Africa
29 Posts |
Hi january1may, Anyone interested will find that the missionaries in general used money, virtual and real, as a method of teaching. Some of the missionaries themselves became traders, so it would have benefitted them to introduce and teach the relationship between commodification and money to the local population. They were also expected to find ways to make the various mission stations self -sustainable. The trade by the missionaries were frowned upon, but accepted on condition they do not make a profit. "God's bankers indeed". We know that the Griqua Town tokens reached their destination and were issued. I include a pic of a circulated token, showing light wear. More circulated examples have also been found. Point is, I am not making a case for more or less widely circulated. I am simply saying that the tokens are a good example of a numismatic event rich in history. We know that the author of this catalogue will now include this in his new updated catalogue, and quite rightly so. That tokensa1 is not in agreement is neither here nor there. The "new corrected coin book" will now be corrected.  Edited by Karel
04/09/2017 10:51 am
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Valued Member
Australia
69 Posts |
Just one simple observation.
Poorly stored coins get worn.
When did that ever equal circulated?
And Karel is not Karel the person behind Karel is, with little doubt, Nortje; but he can hide behind anonymity.
Just don't expect me to respond to his posts here.
And I knew several weeks ago that the new catalogue would insinuate that a few Griquatown tokens "circulated briefly" despite the publisher's own paid for researcher and my earlier research confirming there is absolutely NO evidence of this.
I discussed this more fully in an earlier post so I won't repeat the points here.
What I will repeat is that I have withdrawn my permission for the publisher to use my research on the Strachan tokens in his catalogue because I will not be associated with what I believe to be an ethically compromised book.
Edited by tokensa1
04/09/2017 10:23 pm
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Valued Member
Australia
69 Posts |
I have updated my one page PDF explaining the "environmental reasons" behind the fact not one Griquatown token ever circulated. Here they are:It is a fact that Spink & Son now distance themselves from Parsons booklet and support the more recent research by Scott Balson who finds that the silver tokens were produced as day and half day labour tokens but completely failed. ie not one token ever circulated even though they did arrive in Griquatown c1817. Recent research by Ann Stuart demonstrates Parsons research is flawed. andIn fact the only direct reference to the Griquatown tokens is by Helm who replaced Anderson in 1820. He asks the LMS "what am I to do with the greatest part of them" and refers to Anderson disposing of a few in the past at "too cheap a rate". Disposed means to "get rid of permanently" and too cheap a rate is likely to be a polite way of saying Anderson gave them away - not confusion over their value as previously claimed. In no way does this statement imply any circulated. Source: http://gwb.com.au/summation.pdfEdited by tokensa1
04/11/2017 10:27 pm
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Valued Member
Australia
69 Posts |
And here is the proof of who "Karel" is. http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/forum/b...an-co-debateand this new expert on this subject can't even spell researcher Ann Stuart's name right. Here is a link to the screen dump taken today before he edits it again: http://gwb.com.au/apr17.jpgwe now know that "Karel" is Pierre Henri Nortje (as I suspected). A coward who hides behind the non de plume of Karel (associated with Karel Schoeman who, ironically, is the researcher who is Nortje's nemesis). Nortje never was a researcher. He always was a fraud.As I said before I will not be responding in the future to any posts here from "Karel" (Nortje). And here is a copy of the email Nortje sent to me just days ago apologising for his fraud and asking how he could send his ridiculous award for "his research" back:FROM THE HORSE'S OWN MOUTH:
From: Pierre Nortje
Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 6:18 PM
To: Michael Laidlaw
Subject: Re: South African Numismatics
Michael
I have decided to bury the hatchet for once and all - I have publicly acknowledged that I have personalty attacked Scott Balson on the forum.
I also acknowledges that I have copied some of his research so that I can reply to it.
I have now publicly and unequivocally apologized to him - see my latest post on the BOB forum.
I do not know how to return my NNS plaque (to whom must I send it?) but will do it if he wishes me to do that.
I do not wish to be in confrontation with Scott anymore and have posted the reasons for this publicly on the forum today.
Can you please forward this email to him?
Kind regards
Pierre
------------------------ It is so sad to see the poor state S African numismatics has fallen into. There are many real numismatists who despise the deceit of Nortje and I know who you are, and thank you. Edited by tokensa1
04/13/2017 03:30 am
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1064 Posts |
Yes, I think we got the point that you have a lot of hatred for anyone who doesn't agree with you. I think, and I'm sure a lot of other people would think the same, that this isn't the place for your personal vendetta.
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Replies: 53 / Views: 9,424 |
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Posted 04/07/2017 2:06 pm
