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Valued Member
Canada
306 Posts |
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Moderator
 Canada
10460 Posts |
Strong Machine Doubling, which is a product of the strike - it is not a doubled die. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5400 Posts |
Agree there really aren't. Too many true doubled dies in modern Canadian coins.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2519 Posts |
Too many true doubled dies?  I thought moderns use single-squeeze hubbing which means that there can't be a doubled die anymore. About the rim beads and the star, is that just Die Deterioration Doubling? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2784 Posts |
so he checked 2000 coins in total. found 1 coin in his wife purse wow great find. when they strike these coins from zinc and plate them. could this be the plating moving just a question as the plating cools . could it not move some
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2519 Posts |
Canadian plated coins aren't made of zinc, but multi-ply plated steel. The core (blank) is steel, then layered with nickel, then layered with copper, then nickel again for white coins. Look at page 4 of this link of the Mint Brochure. The blank is already finished with the plating before it is struck. The plating shouldn't be moving around when struck. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2784 Posts |
Mass production Speed meets precision The Winnipeg Mint is Canada's high-volume coin production powerhouse. Here, the industry's most technologically advanced processes and equipment produce up to 15 million plated coins each day for Canadian and foreign circulation. Our adherence to the highest manufacturing standards is what makes the Royal Canadian Mint a valued provider of coins to countries worldwide. How circulation coins are produced Circulation coins are minted using the world's most advanced minting techniques, patented technologies and rigorous statistical sampling to ensure the highest quality standards. Producing blanks Large coiled strips of core steel are fed into a high capacity punch press, which can produce over 13,000 blanks per minute! Refining the raw materials The core metal blanks are deburred to remove any rough edges, then rimmed (a raising and slight rounding of the edges), annealed (heated to better receive the strike), and cleaned. Enhanced security Electroplating is the practice by which steel coin blanks are coated with nickel and copper plate for protection. The Mint's exclusive patented multi-ply plating technique is the world's only multi-ply layer process that can match the electromagnetic signature of any traditional alloy coin - an enormous security advantage for the coin-operated vending industry. Exacting standards After plating, the coins are dried, polished and then sorted by a state-of-the-art inspection camera which examines up to 180,000 blanks per hour for blistering, colour variations and surface defects. Now the coins are ready for striking by a high-speed coining press. Once the coins have been rolled and wrapped, they are shipped to the Mint's coin pool sites across words from the mint this is how they make them |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2784 Posts |
thank you SlurExe97. I understand how they work . copper plated zinc. used in pennies 1997 to 2012 that's why some of the 2006 are worth so much
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Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts |
Quote:Strong Machine Doubling, which is a product of the strike - it is not a doubled die. Hi SPP-Ottawa, can you tell me how you came to this conclusion? If I look at the rim beads they do not look like MDe to me. Below is an illustration to show how I see it. The doubling of the 2014 quarter extends outward from the relief (highest point) of a normal bead, where for Mechanical Doubling the relief is always smaller than normal.  |
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Pillar of the Community
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Pillar of the Community
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2632 Posts |
Quote:
Too many true doubled dies? I thought moderns use single-squeeze hubbing which means that there can't be a doubled die anymore. Actually it can because a single squeeze is done in progressive successions with continuous pressure being applied, making it at least 2 squeezes or more in one. Slowly builds to max pressure. Old way was squeezed a couple times with pressure released between squeezes. added http://www.error-ref.com/centrally-...ed_doubling/Edited by Alexer
02/18/2015 02:56 am
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Moderator
Canada
10460 Posts |
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Hi SPP-Ottawa, can you tell me how you came to this conclusion? Sure. Absolutely no splitting of the other die elements, like the serifs on the numbers. If it was true die doubling, the doubled element would be at the same elevation as the first element, with a crease between them - yours has the standard shelf-like appearance. Stanton's paper is an excellent one to read: http://www.coinbidders.com/Strike%2...0-%20PDF.pdfThe effect on the beads in your photo is no different than what you see in the word LIBERTY in the 2nd page of that article. That 2014 25-cent is not a "doubled die" in the truest definition of that term. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
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1505 Posts |
Thanks for sharing the link SPP, interesting read.
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Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts |
Quote:
The effect on the beads in your photo is no different than what you see in the word LIBERTY in the 2nd page of that article. Is this the image you are referring to?  source: http://www.coinbidders.com/Strike%2...0-%20PDF.pdf If it is, it is very different than what I presented. All the letters on the word LIBERTY have thinner relieves than the normal letters. Also observe how flat the doubling looks like spreading in all directions similar to when you squish play-doh on a desk! What would happen if the working hub shifts while pressing the working die? In this situation, I'm sure there would be no splitting of the sherif. Now, for "the standard shelf-like appearance", I do admit that it is a characteristic of Machine Doubling, but it can also be a characteristic of a true double die! The american coins have rounded edge finish on the relieves where canadian coins have mostly sharp edges relieves, thus, canadian coin double dies will have a self-like appearance. Below is an illustration that shows the creation of a double die having different finishes on the relieves.  Edited by numidan
02/18/2015 12:15 pm
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Moderator
Canada
10460 Posts |
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What would happen if the working hub shifts while pressing the working die? In this situation, I'm sure there would be no splitting of the sherif. Then it is not a doubled die, in the established meaning of that word... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts |
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Then it is not a doubled die, in the established meaning of that word... Really that is your answer! You read "shifts" and automatically discredited the rest? Wexler writes http://doubleddie.com/144822.html : "Unlike genuine doubled dies for which the doubling is on the die itself (hence the term "doubled die"), Mechanical Doubling is the result of loose parts in the coining press. These loose parts allow the dies to shift and/or bounce slightly at the moment of impact when the coin is being struck." What I have written was " while pressing the working die" not the coin! Also, in the PDF you have indicated above, it is written: "Typically, die doubling will almost always exhibit splits in the serifs of the letters and/or numerals, with rounded, secondary images." the word use here is almost always and not just always and further you will read: "There is one class of doubled die which would not exhibit the normal characteristics mentioned for die doubling." --> "normal characteristic" referring to "splits in the serifs". Thus, one can conclude that there are situations where double die won't exhibit "split serifs" characteristics. P.S. It does indicate that there is "one class", but this is base on American coins and not on Canadian coins. Lets not forget that not long ago people thought single- squeeze process would eliminate double dies. Edited by numidan
02/18/2015 4:53 pm
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Replies: 20 / Views: 4,977 |
Posted 02/17/2015 1:04 pm
