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What Is Easier To Counterfeit Silver Or Gold Coins?

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Canada
495 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  3:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add macdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Curious as to who wins this race ?
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5394 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  3:22 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both have been with equal nefarious results. One of the most successful operations before the onset of the current Chinese counterfeit craze was the Middle east gold counterfeiting (Lebanon) before the legalization of Gold in the US. Currently I would bet the Chinese doing silver examples of key coins would win. Although the gold plated tungsten one ounce bar scam is up there.
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DEVLEC's Avatar
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Although the gold plated tungsten one ounce bar scam is up there.


I've never heard of this scam...but if a link to a description or story is out there...

..and what should I do with all of my inexpensive gold bars..?.. ..
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M_d_in_guy's Avatar
Canada
1049 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add M_d_in_guy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
re the tungsten gold;
I read quite a few articles on this in Miningnews.com, there are still loads of undiscovered bars that were faked and bought that are still stacked in various locations unknown and unknown.
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AgCoinAu's Avatar
Canada
3049 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgCoinAu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know that given a hard smack on a solid surface the tungsten 1 oz and 5 oz bars will literally crack and break apart. But other than that... for gold bars that are generics or not from a credible source you MUST drill into it and test it. A specific gravity test, the density is still too close for my scale... so perhaps one of those new mini XRF's would be the way to go...


To answer the OP's original question if you're looking at historical figures ... gold was faked more... but presently.. I think silver coins are faked more... sometimes even using real silver
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zxcccxz's Avatar
Canada
5417 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  6:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zxcccxz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would say gold, the unlikelyness of gold to tone, along with the gold over tungsten scam allow counterfeit gold to be passed off easily when compared to silver.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16826 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I've never heard of this scam...but if a link to a description or story is out there...

Just Google "fake gold ingot tungsten" and you'll get thousands of hits, this story from 2012 has pictures of one being unwrapped like an extremely expensive chocolate bar.

As for the OP's question, gold is still harder to counterfeit than silver, because of the unique properties of gold - the density is difficult to match (though tungsten will do it, tungsten is extremely difficult to work with) and the colour and physical properties (ductility, etc) are hardest to replicate.

Quote:
...so perhaps one of those new mini XRF's would be the way to go...

I don't think XRF will do the trick, it's pretty much a surface test, especially for something that's allegedly solid gold. A layer of gold more than 10 micrometres thick will block the x-rays and show up on XRF as solid gold. The foil/wrapper in the article posted above looks several millimetres thick (thousands of micrometres), which should easily block x-rays from penetrating into the tungsten.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Vancouver IslandCoinKid's Avatar
Canada
1074 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  8:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vancouver IslandCoinKid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In regard to welding (tig(FCAW)) the tungsten breaks apart easily when amounted pressure is given. But with heat it can go for days... HAHA

i would say silver is easily to fool someone or to create simply because silver is not as valuable as gold, so gold would be tested more likely then silver.
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DEVLEC's Avatar
Canada
3234 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  10:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that link Sap...Great details ..with nice pics..


I had no idea ..I wonder if Putin had a hand in that operation..?
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Simply due to cost, silver is much easier to fake in volume and fool someone with. It makes up the vast bulk of faked coins nowadays.

Tungsten-core-gold is hard to detect, but tungsten is a *hard* metal to work with and as such trickier to produce. Other fake gold alloys or gold plated copper or the likes is much easier to detect due to problems with weight and due to cost gold is more likely to be weighed.
Edited by SteveCaruso
02/17/2015 10:48 pm
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I had no idea ..I wonder if Putin had a hand in that operation..?


Very unlikely. :-) It's the result of the surge in popularity of a certain Asian marketplace named after a story whose tagline is "and the Forty Thieves."
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Alexer's Avatar
Canada
2632 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2015  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

If I was making fakes I think I would stick to Silver more than Gold for a couple reasons firstly if your shipment gets busted you loose big time with gold. But if you use real silver and perfect your minting skills then the sky is the limit.

Knowing the difference is the key this link has some tests for silver that are easy, can be done inexpensively they are very accurate and could be applied to gold (change the math up a bit) as well..there is a couple cool easy tests you probably never seen before.
http://www.silvercoins.com/fake-sil...ounterfeits/
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Fixguy's Avatar
Canada
532 Posts
 Posted 02/22/2015  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fixguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only certain way I check for purity is an acid test but that ruins the coin. Not critical if your buying bullion but what if you're buying a rare coin? I try to limit my exposure to scams and buy from reputable sellers. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/tungs...lry-district
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 02/22/2015  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I say silver is easier to scam. Number one key is public perception and it is engrained in our psyche that gold is worth more than silver. Proof of that is in our phrases like "worth its weight in gold" or "a golden opportunity". Also, people think in terms of colors for some odd reason and think that silver is a color and that gold is a color. Combine these two and you have a recipe for allowing silver to be "easier" to counterfeit, or at the very least it's easier to fool people into thinking that a certain item is silver. Silver items, because silver is cheaper than gold, are bulkier and no alarm bells go off if you have a "silver" belt buckle, for example. But because gold is worth so much people will scrutinize it more than silver. Gold is very soft and a good whack, albeit a destructive test and not advised, will prove your hypothesis. If you're stacking gold and worried about fakes then get the thinnest coins possible because you can bend them with your bare fingers. If you bite them it will leave a mark. Pure gold is really that soft.

If you're skilled at finding fake silver you have nothing to worry about. It's the metal that takes the best shine but only for about a day or so of wear. Bad alloys will tarnish heavily.

@fixguy: Don't put acid directly on your coin. Buy a touchstone and do a simple scratch on its edge.

Again, if you don't know what silver and gold are stay away.
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