Canadian Coin News (CCN) Mistakes

Hi kuh! Thanks for the kind words.

And hi SPP. Since my job only involves "reviewing, summarizing and reporting on press release" [sic], that means I don't deserve respect? I really don't understand what you're getting at, but I must point out your summary of how what I do for a living is grossly misinformed (and what of your job, in which you simply look at ice all day?)

Also, I've been commended many, many times for my writing in CCN, so while I'm not doing numismatic research like all your favourite heroes, I am most definitely a numismatic journalist. I don't need you to agree with me on that! In fact, I don't really care what you think. Please, embarrass yourself with Mike once more, if you'd like.

Lastly, I completely accept our readership for who they are and welcome the challenge of writing for such a knowledgeable and passionate group. I even welcome all of grandpa's criticism, as harsh as it may be, and reached out to him when he contacted CCN directly; however, he didn't respond, and after seeing him post the same error notice here, I decided to respond here. I know reading comprehension is difficult for all your tired eyes, but I'm only here to offer an apology for the egregious error and hopefully determine where I can improve.

EDIT: reply to dollarman.

Thank you for your questions.

#1. Why do the trends NEVER change? I have been getting the paper for years now and they never seem to change which is very unrealistic. Because of the trends never changing almost every dealer I meet is living in a dream world as far as their prices are concerned.

This is something I've heard the new publisher speak about many times. We have a rotating committee of about 10 Trends editors, consisting of various numismatists from across the country, and they help determine our valuations. I don't handle Trends, but as far as I know, they're updated to reflect market changes every few months, although we aim to be conservative as to not publish arbitrary valuations.

That being said, how often do you think Trends should be updated? I'll speak with the publisher about this and get back to you before the end of the week; I can reply here or via email, if you'd like.

#2. Why are early PL prices rarely ever included into the price guide section? I find it very frustrating going through 2 dozen papers just to find the price of the coin.

This is something we discussed at our open meeting at the recent RCNA Convention. The reason we don't include these prices, along with some others, is because we're tight for space and to include everything would require a much larger paper.

That being said, are PL valuations something you'd want to see more often in CCN? Again, I'll address this with the publisher and get back to you.

#3. This question relates to the first, how do you get the 'trend' value of these Coins? I would ask you if you used things such as auction results and ebay sold values but you obviously don't since your prices do not change. Also, do you mind me asking WHO does the pricing in trends? I have heard that it is written by dealers which would explain the trends not changing(they don't want to lose money).

I don't have the list of our Trends editors, but I will ask the publisher if that's public and let you know accordingly.

Thanks again for the questions.

A dark day for Canadian numismatics. Sonny is completely oblivious to how offensive his remarks are.

A sure way to encourage former subscribers to re-up.


There are probably a few hundred members here who are current subscribers, why would you offend them?

You have single-handedly reduced your employers publication from second rate to third rate in one day. Won't be long before more than a thousand Canadian collectors will have viewed this thread,hope you are proud of what you have accomplished here. Another Canadian numismatic institution sinks to new lows.

As a scientist, what I write and publish with respect to my job is held to a much higher scrutiny (peer review), than any newspaper. And yes, I have to work darn hard to earn the respect of my peers, through my research and publications - it is simply not granted to me, nor anyone else.

But as a journalist, you would already know this, right?

Prismatic Spray: Boy, what a low blow! You mention the one "CCN expert/author" that was intimately responsible for me ending my nearly 15 year subscription. I got a promise from the old editor that his sevices would no longer be required and he ends up back in the paper, sporadically, 3 months later. I see that the NEW editor, who is seeking to improve the status, has him back as a regular contributor. Lets see some more of the garage jobs, fakes, and the like written about as true errors and varieties to grossly mislead more readers. I miss holding down my temper when I read his articles.

Yes, who start the name calling, indeed...

I wasn't insulting our hundreds of subscribers who happen to be CCF members; I'm sure the intelligent among us will understand this. I was replying to Bobby and DBM, who continue to comment on my "tone" rather than my message. But I'll stop, seeing as it's getting nowhere with us three.

And SPP, it was a joke. I'm actually very interested in science and think you have a very interesting job (no joke!). I was joking around before because you simplified my work. That's all. I know peer-reviewed journals are the cream of the crop in terms of factual information.

Never had an issue of CCN in front of me so I can't comment much there. That won't stop me though.

As for this thread though, it seems that Sonny's use of 'egregious' in regard to his copy and paste error is the big issue. Some take it as an attitude, I tend to think he was just joking about the size of the error.

If he had just said thank you for pointing that out and not included that little throwaway line / joke, that would have been that I'd imagine.


Anyway, I have found the whole thread entertaining. I wish I could read the article they published in 2013 that had CCF and SPP in it, but oh well.


My thoughts on the whole thing. I like Sonny defending his employer / magazine. I like passion in my employees. It doesn't seem like they have the continuous improvement mentality at all though. You need to love seeing mistakes and love fixing/preventing them or you won't produce a great product in any industry.

Mistakes keep happening, even egregious ones, and not much is happening about it. Maybe that is why they hired Sonny, because the other reporter wasn't fixing his mistakes. Maybe it is poor management. I can describe just about any poor business in terms of poor management.

Management seems content to have a dwindling readership and likely blames it on some macro factor like the death of print publishing and decline of coin collecting as opposed to their quality of product. Guessing an older owner that is riding this out with no view to the future beyond his lifespan.

No excuse for not upgrading the price guide section. If you publish monthly, you should divide all the coins in your list into sections and update them each at least twice a year. To be honest, if I were paying you money for the magazine and the articles were hit or miss, I would demand updated pricing monthly as well as no mysteries on where those figures come from. Those prices should come from auction houses and ebay and not much else.

Thanks for posting Sonny. I am really interested in hearing how trends prices are established. I have never seen a copy of trends, as it seems pretty universally accepted that no one believes they reflect reality for most coins. Even J&M prices their TPG coins at a discount to trends and their prices are high compared to what can be found on places like ebay.

You asked a question on how often prices should be updated, in my opinion they should be updated with every issue. Depending on how many data points you have for each coin/grade, you could apply some kind of smoothing algorithm or a moving average. With modern databases and printing, this should not be a difficult thing to do.

Coins and Canada and their "average ebay prices" seem to be a pretty good guide for coins if you want an approximate value without having to sort through recent ebay sales. I assume their standard list price is closer to what I assume are trends and does not reflect reality. But I am not sure how often they update their standard or ebay prices and what methodology they use.

This. I was just having some fun! It's an open forum, and we're all on the same team here, arguably. I'm really interested in what you all think and how we can improve our publication. Many thanks to those who have offered their comments and criticism!

Also, Buckeye, you're spot on about pretty much everything else (except the bit about the owner, who's fairly young and very excited to reinvigorate CCN; he has many ideas about how we can adapt to the changing hobby and world). We're working towards eliminating these errors from our paper, and I think we've done a good job in the past six months. I stand by this. We are simply a different publication than we were in 2014, but we're still in the process of reinventing our content and brand. Updating Trends is a top priority, and I'll see to it that I get some answers for everyone.

And bosox, you've described our dilemma perfectly. As far as I know (and I'll email Mike later today about this; I'm on the train to Ottawa right now to attend today's unveiling), there are both dealers and non-dealers on our Trends committee. More on this once I talk to Mike.

Purelywasted, thank you for your input! Again, I'll pass along the information regarding how Trends valuations are established as soon as I receive it.

Lastly, Pacificoin, thank you for your continued support! I'm glad I was able to make a better impression in person... (see guys, I don't bite; come say hi at the next show or convention). There's certainly an abundance of numismatic knowledge available to us in the Information Age, but I, too, think CCN has a place in the hobby.

Check back soon for more information regarding Trends, including if/how we can include PL valuations as well as how often updates can be made without jumping the gun.

Thanks again, everyone.