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1806 US $5 Gold Coin

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thq's Avatar
United States
3343 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@westernsky interesting. There's a lot of ready money for Kirtland scrip out in them thar hills, from Sun Valley to Park City, and a lot of interest in the history. My father-in-law moved from town to town all over the west growing up, similar to what you read in Stegner's Big Rock Candy Mountain or Angle of Repose. Times have changed for the old rootless Westerners, and we're in the days of wealth and nostalgia now.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Cascade's Avatar
United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  9:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, this story is a nut sandwich with a slice of crazy pie BUT I believe it. The main reasons are that stories this crazy are true more times than not. Don't ask me why but Ripley sure made a big living off of it. And also its because it's not that unbelievable at all, not even the Mormon stuff. With a little tenacity, some charm and a smile you can talk ypur way into alot even digging an old Mormon site.
Valued Member
United States
61 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  06:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dignit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cascade, thank you. It is all true and soon enough the coin will be back in my hands graded and today I'll be detecting the properties , may not find Mormon coins but the properties were built in 1800-1810 which I'll take any coins from that era.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
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6370 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  07:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't say I believe, nor can I say I don't believe, but I think it's a cool story. I hope it is true, and authentication of the coin will likely prove it for me. But you posted here asking about the COIN, not if your story is true. We are here to evaluate the COIN, not if the story of it being found was true. This fact shows that you were not initially intending to just show off your find to everyone here. The membership took this topic WAY out of perspective, and I'm disappointed how they treateded you with contempt.

I know epic coin finds do happen metal detecting, and even rarer coins than yours do show up. That doesn't mean the stories of being dug up are fake; they are just really rare. I can probably speak for everyone here when I say I was envious of your find, and maybe some were overly jealous.

Assuming you can't comfortably afford this coin, why would he buy a multi-thousand-dollar coin, throw it in dirt, take some pictures, and throw it up on a coin forum to seek glory. Wouldn't he do that on a MD forum? I feel he was legitimately asking a question about a coin found.

Rant over.
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ChildOfTheWheat's Avatar
United States
5828 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  07:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ChildOfTheWheat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
We are here to evaluate the COIN, not if the story of it being found was true.

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Biedercoins's Avatar
United States
1602 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  09:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Biedercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On a related note,

do coin shops typically charge $250 for submitting one coin (like this half eagle) to a TPG ? For that money, a guy/gal could join the PCGS collector club (platinum) and get 8 "gratis" submissions - not to mention the snazzy black polo with the logo on it!
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  09:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bieder they may but they shouldn't. Even a walk through 2 day turn around time is only 125 for a collector plus shipping and handling and PCGS dealers get discounted rates. Express is 60 a coin. At 250 for a single coin the shop made money off the submission fee even if they used the fastest tier.

I'd never trust someone else with a coin like that anyway though. Much better to do it yourself if you believe it's real
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Slider23's Avatar
United States
4469 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  09:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the coin was sent to a TPG 5 day express, the cost would be about $150 with grading and register mailing fees. The coin shop will charge a handing fee for sending in a coin. The $250 charge appears to be high, but not unreasonable.
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thq's Avatar
United States
3343 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ typecoin & everyone else not interested in Mormon history:

The story is more important than the coin if the coin proves to be real.

If dignit is selling, there's a lot more value in the story than the coin's numismatic value. The potential buyers are interested in their history. They're keenly interested in upstate New York treasure hunting and genealogy. I have no doubt they have better records of all the historic property owners than dignit has. I have found stories of gold coin finds in other places around the world, but nothing in upstate New York, and nothing at all about anything that dates to the exact time Joseph Smith was treasure hunting there. If the date on this coin were 1825 it would only be an interesting curiosity. 1806 makes it a lot more than that.

Even if dignit isn't selling, he's holding an artifact that testifies to what Joseph Smith occupied himself with before he found his golden plates. It's an organic connection to the founder of the LDS. A ten mile separation between the discovery site and where Joseph lived is no distance at all for a treasure hunter, who was armed with better knowledge of the recent camps and settlements than dignit. Joseph probably dug this site too. He just wasn't lucky.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
11/20/2015 11:33 am
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  11:42 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The story is more important than the coin if the coin proves to be real.


And a key point is that the story has no backing. It's simply someone saying something with nothing to back it up. That brings zero dollars in the marketplace.

The OPs advertisement for a major metal detector is blatant and obvious to anyone watching the video. It's like a sponsored advertisement which is likely what it is.

Bottom line if the coin comes back genuine with AU Details it will be valued like any other coin. There is no proof where it came from. Period.


Quote:
Assuming you can't comfortably afford this coin, why would he buy a multi-thousand-dollar coin, throw it in dirt, take some pictures, and throw it up on a coin forum to seek glory. Wouldn't he do that on a MD forum? I feel he was legitimately asking a question about a coin found.

Rant over.


Again, it's on MD forums and runs like an advertisement for his brand of MD. Watch the video. $5,000 isn't much money to a company trying to sell it's product. Especially for a coin that's already damaged. Throw it next to a hole in the ground and say you're next to Joseph Smith's house! Woo Hoo! We'll sell a zillion metal detectors for Christmas!
ANA #R3154474
Edited by BH1964
11/20/2015 11:47 am
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@ typecoin & everyone else not interested in Mormon history:


That is NOT what I said nor what I meant to imply. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I really appreciate the story behind the coin if it is true (and I hope it is). What I was getting at is that CCF members should not try to degrade a find like this by poking holes into every letter of the OP's story, but instead focus on the coin the OP was seeking our collective expertise on.

I love it when a coin has a provenance and history like this that is based on where it was found. I have some Ancient Chinese coins that yield valuable information about circulation patterns based on how they were buried and what other coins they were buried with.
Edited by TypeCoin971793
11/20/2015 11:48 am
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  11:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
And a key point is that the story has no backing. It's simply someone saying something with nothing to back it up. That brings zero dollars in the marketplace.


That's why I can't wholeheatedly believe the story. The most I can do is hope that the OP is telling the truth as it makes this coin that much cooler.
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  11:57 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That's why I can't wholeheatedly believe the story. The most I can do is hope that the OP is telling the truth as it makes this coin that much cooler.


Yes TypeCoin971793, I'm not trying to slam the OP. Just sorting out the facts from the hype. Any major coin dealer or Auction House would do the same before presenting any "supplemental" information about this coin.

Metal detecting can be good clean fun for many people. Let's keep that and coin collecting fun and interesting. Cheers!

ANA #R3154474
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thq's Avatar
United States
3343 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@typecoin you said we were here to evaluate the coin. For many treasure finds (think Atocha) the backstory is what creates most of the coin's value. This could be the case here. When you say we're not here to see whether the story is true I disagree. The truth of the story is important to me because of what this coin might mean in Mormon history, and that's why I entered the thread so late. I've been following Mormon history for most of my life. The only important numismatic detail to me is whether it's real, not whether or what it grades.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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westernsky's Avatar
United States
7633 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2015  2:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin has ZERO documentable provinence and history! It cannot be proved if it was carelessly lost or buried by a scared owner 200 years ago. It cannot be proved if this is a scam by the current owner to plug metal detectors and equipment. There are more questions than answers and the more we were told the more unbelievable the whole story sounded to me. Everybody has an opinion and that's mine.

Bottom line is It is a damaged 1806 5$ gold piece that is worth what the market will bear when/if it is sold to a willing buyer by a willing seller.
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