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1806 US $5 Gold Coin

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westernsky's Avatar
United States
7635 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gold "weathers the storm" of the elements when buried, even for extended periods of time.
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Imthealphaomega's Avatar
United States
3210 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Imthealphaomega to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look at gold buried at sea for hundreds of years it still holds luster and doesn't tarnish, unlike silver which is way more reactive to elements in the air and water
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nevertheless, 90% gold can still develop an 'old gold' tone in coins of this age.
Probably the best examples of this are in the contemporary British gold Guinea series.
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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6396 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  4:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Gold "weathers the storm" of the elements


True for pure gold, but the gold/copper alloy used for US gold coins is not quite so inert. Gold coins recovered from shallow water can show a "shipwreck effect" caused by copper leaching from the exposed surfaces over time. This affects the luster and texture in a detectable way, resulting in basically a "details" coin. A coin buried in soil for 200 years should be vulnerable to a similar process.

I believe the famous deepwater recovery coins from the Central America and Brother Jonathan wrecks were better protected due to the very cold temperatures and relative lack of oxygen at great depth. Those coins after conservation had surfaces basically indistinguishable from original uncirculated coins and therefore did not receive details grades.

If the OP's coin is genuine, I'm on-board with an AU details grade. It does seem to show some wear, in addition to the obverse rim cut.
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thq's Avatar
United States
3343 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Forget about the nicks. If this coin proves genuine, and you can positively link it to the site of discovery, the sky's the limit on what you could sell it for. Dug gold from the time and place of Joseph Smith is museum quality stuff. That's why I was asking you about ANYTHING you found in the ground near the coin. The burial depth is a good sign IMO. I don't know what the accepted New York treasure hunting techniques were in 1820 before metal detectors, but having an angel show you where to dig would probably be the only way to find a coin buried a foot in the ground.

I visited a coin shop in downtown Salt Lake City three years ago. Their foreign selection was very good, and I bought some 19th century French silver there. One of the employees told me about getting to see and handle some of the church's territorial gold pieces. While your's won't go for these prices, this will give you an idea of how much demand there is for association pieces:

https://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=29609146
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Valued Member
United States
61 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dignit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thq - This wasn't found on the Mormon property - about 10 miles away
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United States
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 Posted 11/19/2015  5:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dignit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thq - just read about the Mormon coins, I'll be now looking for them- were they gold ? Didn't watch the videos
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Moe145's Avatar
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8904 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Man, what a topic. Everyone on this like chickens in a barnyard.

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thq's Avatar
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3343 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh yes dignit they're gold, which the CA Mormon prospectors brought back to Utah. Starting with Hill Cumorah (and Joseph' pre-Cumorah occupation) there's been a fascination with gold in the LDS.

You now have something in common with him too. For all I know you found some of the treasure he was hunting for. If all this proves up, you're digging days out there are probably over. The whole SUNY will be out there with backhoes and metal detectors that can see to China.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
11/19/2015 7:29 pm
Valued Member
United States
61 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dignit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
mums the word on location of my find. I will be however going back with my big coil to some places I know the Mormons lived, camped, worked and more. And I'm still waiting on a Bigger coil for the place that I've found the 1806 at a whopping 13 inches deep. Thanks again thq . Being new on here I can not message you, not sure if you're on FB- but I'm easy to find on the MD pages .
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westernsky's Avatar
United States
7635 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Highly unlikely you would find any Mormon issued gold coins in Noo Yawk, Illinois or Missouri by treasure hunting with a metal detector.

The Mormon gold pieces were not issued until a couple of years AFTER the Mormon migration to Utah in 1847. You might give the Temple grounds in Salt Lake a quick MD search but I'm pretty sure security would be on you like a chicken on a June bug as soon as you turned on your metal detector.

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thq's Avatar
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3343 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
westernsky any of those territorial coins that went east would probably have gone about as far as St. Louis, and no way ANY of them would have made it to western New York. This was 30-40 years too late.

I believe this is the Salt Lake shop I visited. You should talk to them but you might wait for the slab to come back. I'd be saving every scrap of evidence you have about the dig site.

http://www.rustcoin.com/Kirtland-Notes/

I've picked out the page that shows their stock of Kirtland notes, which was the next stop as the Mormons headed west out of New York. These things are famous. Smith had them printed up by the "Kirtland Anti Banking Society" (they weren't chartered as a bank and I don't recall whether they had any assets), and the Mormons passed them off to whoever would take them, till their value dropped to ten cents on the dollar or less. For this Smith was tarred and feathered by the angry locals and run out of town. He had a vision at that point that they should move on, to Independence, Missouri.

You start to get the idea why they liked golld so much as they moved from NY to MO to IL to UT. They never had any, and were always trying to pass paper. But that paper is highly collected now. Kirtland starts trading in the $2000 range. And those gold territorial coins I've only seen them in pictures. I'll hunt around Heritage and find one.

http://coins.ha.com/itm/territorial...ption-071515

This guy is willing to sell his half eagle. Minimum offer $26,790. Yours has way more class.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
11/19/2015 7:47 pm
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Certainly a fun topic. Treasure is always an emotional topic.
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westernsky's Avatar
United States
7635 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2015  8:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought many a coin from Al Rust and his children when living in Utah back in the 1980's. A heck of a nice guy and the preeminent authority on LDS currency issues from Navoo to Salt Lake. He wrote the book on it.

Joe Smith would be turning over in his grave if he knew what this Mormon money was bringing. He'd still be churning it out like there was no tomorrow if he was still around. He'd probably even recruit Mark Hoffman to help him make it!

As far as the 1806 5$ coin that is the topic of this thread, it's provenence cannot be traced to anything other than it was allegedly found "on a Colonial site" miles away from where Joseph Smith lived. No need to save the dirt.
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