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Valued Member

United States
252 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2016  1:54 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Kevin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have a question why does the experts say Machine Doubling is not collectible but wavy steps is collectible,wavy steps is a mechanical error so is off center strikes,there can be a million of 1 double die,but with Machine Doubling some can be vary rare.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4591 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2016  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The short answer is because some (fool) will pay for wavy steps and not MD. Although I don't think people are paying all that much for trail dies/wavy steps...

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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188213 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2016  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the Community!

I moved your welcome post to the appropriate forum for the proper attention.
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tweak800's Avatar
United States
1249 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2016  4:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tweak800 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that rarity doesn't always matter. Although I personally feel it should have more pull in the price. But If that was so rotated dies and Cuds would be worth more than they are. I do have to say though MD is way more common. I can go through a roll of pennies and find one or to with MD but I won't find any doubled dies. Then again I have found around 100 Doubled dies and only 2 rotated dies so which one is more rare ?
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Slamnbass's Avatar
United States
3644 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2016  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slamnbass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
and its not the experts that are making the market for these. The experts are only stating the fact(supply and demand) as you search through rolls just see how many md you find compared to true doubled dies...and so true with Cuds and rotated dies,ive only ever found one Cud and many doubled dies tho-and rotated dies? Wow,think ive only got one true one in my collection and thats a Seated half dime which from what I understand was common back then
Valued Member
United States
252 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2016  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kevin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree md is easier to find maybe because not alot of people collect them,i do know the stronger the double strike or even a triple strike is hard to find but in all the books these people write they push for people not to collect them which isn't right.an error coin is what it is an error.
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Slamnbass's Avatar
United States
3644 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2016  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slamnbass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do get your point tho and to the forum!
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 Posted 01/27/2016  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add seal006 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why is it that there are so many people who post in this section that have never come across a genuine doubled die? How many times have folks posted coins with Machine Doubling? The reason you see so many fewer doubled dies is because they are a lot rarer. I like Machine Doubling, chips, and cracks. Truth is none of those are actual errors or varieties. They are something that happens over the life of a die. A doubled die was there from the very first coin it struck. So becasuse of that it makes that die differnt from what is supposed to be. The anomolies you are referring to are gaining popularity. But is pretty hard to assign a reasonable value that is unique. Machine Doubling will not be the same on any two coins. Similar yes. The same, no. Cracks and chips get bigger and change shape as the life of the die progresses.

Keep in mind, sellers do not dictate the value of an item. That value is determined by what the buyer is willing to pay.
New Member
United States
35 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2016  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark Oliver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is there anywhere on the internet a person can look up a true doubled die and get an idea of how many are estimated to be still in circulation?

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United States
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 Posted 01/27/2016  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add seal006 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, because die life varies from die to die. Some doubled dies are spotted and polished away. There is no way to get good solid numbers.
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United States
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 Posted 01/27/2016  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add seal006 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you look at the grading companies numbers on the big doubled dies that is still not good enough. Those numbers do not include coins that are raw sitting in someones collection, or still in a roll yet to be opened, or lost forever. You also have to understand that many of those that have been graded may have been graded once before and busted out of their holder trying for a higher grade. There are just too many variables to get an accurate count.
Edited by seal006
01/27/2016 8:22 pm
New Member
United States
35 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2016  8:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark Oliver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Seal. In hindsight if they have not found all 24 1894S Barber dimes yet that was probably a dumb question :).
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Agrippa's Avatar
United States
663 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2016  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Agrippa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Even if you knew the mintage numbers of a particular variety, it's nearly impossible to know how many are in circulation. Auntie Em could have 20 rolls of 1969 double die coins hiding under her bed and when the big tornado hits those coins could be released into the wild. So hypothetically, a coin that everyone thought there were just a few of now has had 1000 coins added to the population. Coins are always being added and taken out of circulation.
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2016  12:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Trail dies are a die issue, not a striking issue.
They are not considered hub doubling, but an anomaly that happens during the creation of the die.
Thus trail dies and Wavy steps are not hub doubling, but a die issue which makes them collectable.
Machine Doubling is a striking issue and the dies are normal. Hope this helps.
Wavy steps and trail dies are always the same, strike by strike. Unlike machine damage that happens randomly.
Valued Member
United States
252 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2016  09:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kevin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Off center strikes,cuds and lamination are also not from the die but they are collectible,i have been collecting since I was 5 and I am 43 now and for the past 15 years I go through about 500 to 1,000 coins a week and I can tell you finding strong double strikes,triple strikes,and double strikes on all the letters are rare.it is these books that say coin damage but isn't the other stuff coin damage to.
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United States
1915 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2016  09:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add seal006 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is the culture of the coin collecting community. Things like Machine Doubling have been thought of as damage because it happens during the strike process. Whereas hub doubling occurs on the die prior to the striking process. It is called a "die variety" because that die now has something different than the other dies. The culture , I feel, is changing. The new generation of collector is finding things like machine doublig, die cracks, and die chips fascinating. They are becoming popular enough to start creating a market. It will take some time, but it will happen. Heck, douled dies and RPMs were once considered damage.
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