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 Replies: 43 / Views: 6,031 |
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Valued Member
Canada
320 Posts |
If your keeping it, ID say keep quiet about its value.
If you want to sell it to make a 3000% profit, that's morally wrong.
If I were in your shoes, ID buy it for his $15 asking price, put the coin in my pocket so the deal is done, than tell him of his mistake and give him an extra $100. You still get a good deal by paying about 25% of market value and you will make the original dealer very happy about it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
982 Posts |
I'd ask the seller if he'd accept $10 for the coin; then once the deal was done, I'd inquire whether he had any other $500 coins for cheap.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
Either buy the coin and say NOTHING after the sale... or prior to the deal tell the seller of the value... anything else will leave an impression of bad character. Nobody would fault you for buying the coin at listed price. The seller is happy with that price then fine! (Although I have a suspicion that this is a fake... even an antiques dealer would know enough to search an item and find it's true value) But paying a guy off more money after a deal.. and saying it's worth a whole lot more ... will only make the seller feel like a  which in turn will cause feelings of dissent towards you. Future deals will never be prosperious... that's my Two Cents. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Well you know it could work the other way as well..... It would seem the antique shop owner knows little or nothing about coins yet considering the nature of the business, buying old stuff, might require a trusted coin advisor. Certainly a customer who admits to having reservations about buying a $500 coin for $15 could fill that role, possibly be granted the future opportunity to buy at a good discount as well. Just speculating, but wanted to make the point that surprising doors might open when people do the right thing, I once knew a VP of a large organization who took great joy in recruiting employees tagged to quickly rise up the ladder - through keenly and silently observing the manner in which young waiters performed their routine tasks.
Edited by wildflowerAB
02/18/2016 12:53 pm
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New Member
Canada
18 Posts |
Buy coin and post pictures for your fellow CCF members to grade.
If it turns out to be the real deal you could always go back to that nice shop keeper and sell it back for the price you paid.. No harm no foul in any business transaction.
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Valued Member
Canada
403 Posts |
Interesting topic. I can't help but wonder if this topic's root cause is triggered by some social convention brought on by institutional/systemic (usually Catholic) guilt? But I digress.
My response to the original question is the same as it is in how I view all matters of customer and merchant relations: that each side is responsible for their own respective role in the transaction. Merchants are responsible for evaluating and pricing their goods/services to what they believe is fair market value, or at least how much they are willing to provide that good/service for. Ultimately it's the merchant's responsibility to consider their own acquisition price + evaluate the rarities they acquired to derive at their price for resale, and presumably in this case, the merchant did that and came up with a value of $16. If/when merchants undervalue their products, then that's merchant's risk and responsibility to bear. The customer has no basis to feel guilty for the merchant's lame due diligence or flawed internal processes.
The customer, on the other hand, has a responsibility to ensure they get the best value for their money. In doing so, they too have a responsibility to exercise careful due diligence in determining whether they are getting good value or not. In this case (presuming the coin is worth $500), the customer demonstrated greater due diligence in being able to identify the true value of the coin, and therefore should not feel bad for the merchant, but rather, he should feel good for fulfilling his objective of getting the best value for his money; especially at $16 for a potential $500 return. Also, for all the customer knows, the merchant may have acquired the coin as part of a larger collection of antiques and paid virtually nothing for it in the first place. If so, the merchant may still be making a profit himself. Sure, not as much as the merchant's customer, but that's what happens in transactions: it's all about who is better prepared.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts |
There is absolutely nothing wrong with paying someone's full asking price for a coin.
Knowledge goes a very, very long way in this hobby.
Edited by Pokermandude
02/19/2016 12:29 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
403 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
The customer has no basis to feel guilty for the merchant's lame due diligence or flawed internal processes.
Reading this, certainly not directed to anyone whatsoever, but I can't help but contemplate.....in reverse, seems much the same philosophy that enables con artists to bilk customers without a single twinge of guilt, otherwise known as "buyer beware". There's no one answer to the OPs question because not enough details are known. For example if the small antique shop was run by a kindly elderly couple located in a small town where your inlaws also lived would the response be exactly the same as if it was also a pawn shop located on a side street in a large urban environment? Probably not. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
Has anyone mentioned that the coin may not actually be legit, and the OP or purchaser of the coin may in fact be out the $16. This is assuming the coin is not graded and not attributed (seeing as the seller does not know the value).
The Buyer is still taking a chance on the coin
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
In my other major hobby of collecting glass insulators, and being a dealer, I have been on both sides of the issue myself. If someone points out to me something rare on my table that is under priced, I figure I was happy with what it was priced, and the friendship made by selling it to them is worth more than what the money ever could be. Since insulators are a hobby just since the late 50s, there are still opportunities to a better piece pretty readily. But since its also not near the scope of numismatics, I have chanced upon dealers who have not been able to move a high priced piece (in the book), so let it go for a lot less after awhile (myself included). Depending on our contacts in the hobby, I may have someone I know who will go full book price, and I have voiced this to the dealer selling it. I even will supply contact information. But some of them just don't want to chance it and so they tell me to flip it for profit myself. Another time I had someone tell me they had found a legit 25,000.00 insulator and wanted to sell it. I told them I could not afford such a thing but could put them in contact (which I could) with the proper people in the hobby who could get him the max profit. I found out it later sold to a person for 3K. Why? I asked the long time dealers. They said that when someone knowing little about insulators find a rare one, they seek help. Then a lot of the time they get the idea that if someone else could sell it for them, then why can;'t they do it themselves? They end up trying, but don't have the proper channels. So they end up thinking it was all a sham anyway and throw it out or use it as a doorstop. This is from some of the oldest and most experienced dealers in the insulator hobby. BTW - their recommendation to solve the problem of a rare item being thrown away? Ask the owner what he would be happy getting for the piece. Pay the price. When you flip it, go back and show him what happened and give him more money (if he will take it!). The friendships this makes brings not just future contact possibilities, but lasting trust between two people. Which is worth more? All this weighs into the moral issues. The insulator hobby is full of a large family atmosphere (CCF reminds me of this and is why I am on THIS coin forum) b/c this is a prevalent attitude. What goes around comes around - but in this scenario, I have close friends in most states, many provinces, and other countries who I KNOW I can (and do) trust with anything. I am not wealthy in money, and really don;'t care. How the importance of money pales when you need a good friend.  |
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Valued Member
Canada
403 Posts |
To re-clarify my previous post, I was writing in the context of a stated presumption (for sake of argument) that the coin was legit, and worth $500. In response to the subsequent questions made about whether the coin is even legit or not, I'd say the same principle I previously outlined would apply: both sides of the transaction must exercise careful due diligence, and each is responsible for their own. If the customer fails to exercise due diligence in determining a coin's authenticity, and then buys it anyway, then the customer assumes that risk. As many here have said before: education goes a long way, and we can only praise/blame ourselves for good/bad deals.
As for WildflowerAB's secondary point: I personally don't think it matters who the merchants/dealers are or where they are; others may disagree. But I say that because I typically don't form relationships with anyone I buy stuff from, regardless of what it is. Obviously in the coin hobby, many collectors and dealers have deeply rooted friendships with each other; which I'd say is the exception and not the rule in the normal course of customer-merchant transactions.
I agree, there's no one answer to the original question that was posted here, but for me, I never allow feelings/emotions to sway my judgement in any prospective transaction. That's why I come back to: (a) did the poster of this thread do his homework about the coin, and (b) did he see value in buying the coin from the merchant at the asking price? By the sounds of it, both answers to those questions are "yes". And if he bought it at the asking price, then there's no reason for anyone to be unhappy, because in the end, both sides got what they wanted = good deal.
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Valued Member
Canada
118 Posts |
This is a part of every hobby I've been part of: redline hot wheels, coins, collectible golf clubs. And, views are split in every hobby I've been part of. For some people, it makes their day to get a "steal". Who hates a bargain? Everyone has to make their own choice as to whether or not they can sleep at night operating as they choose. Most recently I browsed some coins at J&M's branch store, and looked over a US 50 cent piece just to spend some time while my family shopped. I know nothing about US coins, and liked the look of it. The staff member looked up the price on their website, and it seemed wrong to me because the coin was stored in a book of "expensive" coins behind the counter. I told them they should check whether or not this was a $20 coin. They did, and it was a $700 coin (that I could've had for $20, and for whatever reason had no price on it). But, I deal with J&M a lot, and would hate to create any hard feelings. I've also snapped up the occasional item on ebay that was a great deal and never said anything to the seller. It just depends on the circumstances for me, I suppose. |
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Posted 02/18/2016 10:42 am
