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Royal Canadian Mint Cancels $200 For $200 Face Value Coins For 2016

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New Member
Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2016  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinFreq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

But cashing them at face value at banks in the future could be another matter. Time will tell I guess.


A belated reply to this topic, but what is the probability of something like this happening?

What is the situation with the banks now?
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Lostwords's Avatar
Canada
1528 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2016  7:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lostwords to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

BTW, when you cash these things in, doesn't the bank take your information (ID, account number etc.). Wouldn't that paper and electronic trail make counterfeiting a whole lot more difficult for these coins than say widely accepted $20 bills or fake collector coins that rarely make it back to the RCM for verification?


in my case, they deposit the amount to my bank account. So I don't see the bank loosing anything for doing that. If the coins are fake, the bank can take the money back out of my account
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Canada
1461 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2016  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheCoinHunter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Branches lose money because they have to handle and ship the coins back to the mint at their expense. Apparently getting paid out isn't all that quick either. 6+ months.
Edited by TheCoinHunter
12/05/2016 10:00 pm
New Member
Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2016  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinFreq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

in my case, they deposit the amount to my bank account.

Which bank was that?

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Redzapsid's Avatar
Canada
1571 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2016  12:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Redzapsid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TD takes them
New Member
Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2016  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinFreq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you.
Valued Member
Canada
411 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2017  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sherwooddavid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does anyone know if the face value coins have been canceled -$20 for $20 - $50 f0r $50 - $100 for $100 - $200 for $200 ?
I contacted my rep and asked him if we would be able to place a "face value standing order" for 2017 similar to 2016 ? All he said is that he'll let me know if it will happen this year. I checked my email and we received the standing order notice in December last year.

I also noticed that there are no face value coins listed on the RCM website under "SHOP" that I can see anyway ?

I hope I'm wrong but starting to think the face value coins are done.
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Canada
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 Posted 01/03/2017  4:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Does anyone know if the face value coins have been canceled -$20 for $20 - $50 f0r $50 - $100 for $100 - $200 for $200 ?


This would be a good question to ask your rep.

However a couple of weeks ago or so already the XforX disappeared from RCM's website, only to reappear a few days later. So it's equally possible the vanishing game is a scare tactic of sorts to motivate those who tend to procrastinate to place their order without delay. It's not as if RCM has earned the reputation of treating customers with a high degree of consideration and respect.
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Jackalope's Avatar
Canada
194 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2017  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jackalope to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Does anyone know if the face value coins have been canceled -$20 for $20 - $50 f0r $50 - $100 for $100 - $200 for $200 ?



I spoke to my rep and he informed me that the face value program is now over. It was only on for five years.
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Canada
6768 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2017  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I spoke to my rep and he informed me that the face value program is now over. It was only on for five years.


Thanks for clear info.

It basically good that it over - since provides to collectors a limited sets of coins.
In addition, closes all these buy/deposit operations and not clear status of these coins.
What I do not believe - that the Mint by itself planned it for specific period, I think it was flexible, according the situation.
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Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2017  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the information Jackalope! Awaiting a formal announcement, the word-smithing will be interesting.

I have a strong hunch as redemptions continued to increase, so did counterfeiting which led to the Cdn Banking Assoc demanding either redemption guarantees or higher remuneration to balance the risk. RCM said no as the redemptions are already a money losing proposition. A good time to shut it down.

Upon the conclusion of the program, I wonder does RCM expect the value to eventually start to rise above face, which in turn would also alleviate RCM redemptions. It would also be a good thing for collectors in it for the long term.
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Canada
6768 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2017  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Upon the conclusion of the program, I wonder does RCM expect the value to eventually start to rise above face, which in turn would also alleviate RCM redemptions. It would also be a good thing for collectors in it for the long term.


Except high face value, the coin is standard NCLT.
High mintage, in opposite, could only to drag the price down.
(exception, as usual the first coin)
If at any point, Bank will stop to accept them for face value - their aftermarket value will immediately drop down. $200 coins will less suffer - lower mintage and more unique design, but again - the demand for them will be very very low.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2017  2:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

If at any point, Bank will stop to accept them for face value - their aftermarket value will immediately drop down.



Very good point. So in order for the minimum face value to be sustained. the offer of redemption must continue indefinitely. If not, a run on redemptions can be expected.
New Member
Canada
1 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PrairieRose to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello all. I am brand new to this forum but I was looking for some info (lurking) and I noticed this topic and I can answer it for you.

I live in a Canadian city with a Royal Canadian Mint store. I asked why the $20 for $20 were not announced for 2017 and the employee said that all the face-value silver coins were recalled back to Ottawa around Christmas. Apparently, people were abusing the system.... for Air Miles.

I had the same look on my face you have now. How? If I buy a $20 coin, that's only 1 Air Mile on my credit card.

Apparently,people were buying as many of the $20$20, $50$50, $100$100, and $200$200 as they could at one time - using their Air Mile credit card... and then turning them in at the bank for cash and then buying more.

Sounds like a lot of work for little return to me... except that the "maximum per customer" was 3 $200s, 3 $100, 4 $50, and 4 $20... so if you buy 1180$ worth each day on your credit card... and your wife does the same, and several other people behind you in line "from a different family, you swear", you can get a lot of Air Miles - and you bring them straight to the bank to cash in and try to do it again tomorrow. I guess the bank noticed a lot of returns coming in, and the Mint store employees were suspicious why so many people were buying coins over and over (must be big collectors or resellers, but they are pretty tolerant about that normally....) but then the bank has to return them to the Mint, and the Mint has to melt down/store/repackage the coins for resale or whatever...


and why not just return it for refund at the Mint store? Because then your credit card is credited and you lose the Air Miles - this way you keep churning and churning and building Air Miles.

I was shocked that this would be an issue - but when you consider the bank and Mint have to deal with a lot of returns from the same branches over and over and combined with the staff feedback that it was the same people over and over doing it....

they decided to end the $ for $ program.

Oh well, the ones I bought have just gone up in rarity I guess.

(I have no other confirmation on this story, except the employee, so I cannot guarantee it but.... kind of makes sense. Less effort than counterfeiting I guess)
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Canada
6768 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Readily believe to this story.

They should track these "frequent depositors" and claim kind of tax / charge on transactions or judge people for mandatory works.
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