| Author |
 Replies: 14 / Views: 1,845 |
|
|
Valued Member
United States
115 Posts |
Greetings all, I just received an order from the BEP that included a full sheet of uncut $2 notes from Series 2013. The notes are all from the BEP in Fort Worth, TX and issued for the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, TX. They're all from the K...A block. I've been trying to determine how the BEP was serializing these notes, given that recent information has been discovered that some $2 notes from this series are overprinted on LEPE and others on the old COPE system. So, for example, one of the notes on the sheet has the serial number K99295956A, and it has a plate position of E3 (upper right corner). It has a front plate serial number of (FW)E23. Based on the calculations found on www.uspapermoney.info (awesome site, BTW), I cannot determine whether it was overprinted on COPE or LEPE, as the math just doesn't work out. The COPE calculations are: 99295956 / 6400000 = 15.514993125 Then we do 15.514993125 - 15 = 0.514993125 Finally, we do 0.514993125 * 32 = 16.47978 Lastly, we round up to 17. So, according to the chart on the above mentioned web site, this note should be position A3 according to standard COPE overprinting. The LEPE calculations are: 99295956 / 3200 = 31029.98625 Then we do 31029.98625 - 31029 = 0.98625 Finally, we do 0.98625 * 32 = 31.56 Lastly, we round up to 32. So, according to the LEPE chart, this note should be position D2 at the lower left corner. So, I'm guessing that some kind of unique process is being used here (and I'm guessing that it's based on COPE, since that is the closest match, mathematically). Does anyone have any further information on this subject? Regards, Geoffrey |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4212 Posts |
Nice topic & calcs & I'm not even into notes. Learn something every day.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
78 Posts |
The way to tell if your sheet was printed on COPE or on LEPE is to compare the serial numbers of two notes with adjacent plate positions. For example, you could compare the serial number of PP E3 with that of PP F3. If the serials differ by 100, the sheet was printed with LEPE. But if the serials differ by some other number (in the case of Series 2013 $2 notes from the KA block, the difference should be 60,000), the sheet was printed with COPE. Does the PP F3 note on your sheet have serial 99355956?
The reason the math doesn't work in this instance is two-fold. First, the size of the KA run was 60,000 sheets, but in your calculations, you're using a run size of 200,000 sheets (by dividing by 6,400,000). Second, you need to subtract the starting serial of the run from your serial before making your calculation. The math works out if you correct for those two things:
(99295956-98080001) / (60,000*32) = 1215955 / 1920000 = 0.63330989
0.63330989 - 0 = 0.63330989
0.63330989 * 32 = 20.26592
Round up to 21, which corresponds to PP E3.
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
115 Posts |
Hi, xxJOExx,
I just examined my sheet again. The difference between the serial numbers of the E3 and F3 notes is 60,000. So, it definitely looks like it was over printed on COPE. This brings up another question. Is the difference between the serial numbers of two adjacent notes on the sheet always equal to the run size?
Regards,
Geoffrey
|
|
Valued Member
United States
78 Posts |
That's correct, at least for COPE. With LEPE and the difference between two notes being just 100, it means 100 sheets are serialed in a "mini-run" of sorts, and a collection of these mini-runs makes up a full run. So for regular production notes, the standard run size is still 200,000 sheets (6.4 million serials), but 2,000 of these mini-runs make up the full run. (I don't know what term, if any, the BEP uses internally to refer to these mini-runs; maybe they don't have such a term at all. I just called them that as a way to understand how the serialing process differs between LEPE and COPE.)
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
Typically the sheets leave the second printing, are cut in half, and then receive the serial numbers......how and when did my 50-subject sheet of $1's get the serial numbers if it wasn't cut in half ?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
LEPE Serials the whole sheet, it also serialed the 2009 32 subject sheets while COPE required the Sheets to be trimmed in half..
I posted the COPE versus LEPE Plate Position Chart Combo for the 2009 $1 series in a previous thread..
Edited by Broken-Coin
08/19/2016 5:48 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
I believe the 32 subject full sheets for COPE are manually overprinted on each half..
I received my 50 subject sheet last week, and as predicted, the same format shows the plate position in the last 4 digits..
Edited by Broken-Coin
08/19/2016 5:42 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
I posted this almost 3 years ago.. I combined both COPE & LEPE P/Position charts into a single chart that can be used for other denomination 32 subject sheets serialed on LEPE (I believe the math is the same as the series 2009 $1. FRN.) https://goccf.com/t/164141 |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
 Playing around with the 60K sheet run, I find that the 1st Sheet to be printed in the A1 Plate position is K98140000A (as they are numbered in reverse when counting down to K98080001A), and since the BEP can't sell this as a full sheet, they would have to trim it into One 16 subject sheet & three 4 subject sheets, and omitting this sheets serials E4 to H4 (K99820000A, K99880000A, K99940000A & K00000000A).. The 2nd sheet printed should have serial number K99999999A in the H4 P/Position.. Maybe Joe can confirm my math, then I can give him a serial number from my partial 4 subject sheet - series 2001 $1.00 sheet (K-A Block) with 15K skip numbering where I spent over a hour trying to match the p/position to the serial number.. This one I had to give up on..  |
|
Valued Member
United States
78 Posts |
Unlike a lot of uncut sheet runs, the highest serial in the 2001 KA block of uncut sheets did not go all the way to 99999999. That run appears to have a low serial of 99215001 and a high serial of 99695000. So to do your math, subtract 99215001 from your serial and divide by 15000*32. For example, a note with serial 99669965 would be from plate position G4:
(99669965-99215001) / (15,000*32) = 454964 / 480000 = 0.94784166
0.94784166 - 0 = 0.94784166
0.94784166 * 32 = 30.330933
Round up to 31, which corresponds to PP G4.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
Quote:
Unlike a lot of uncut sheet runs, the highest serial in the 2001 KA block of uncut sheets did not go all the way to 99999999. That run appears to have a low serial of 99215001 and a high serial of 99695000. So to do your math, subtract 99215001 from your serial and divide by 15000*32. For example, a note with serial 99669965 would be from plate position G4:
(99669965-99215001) / (15,000*32) = 454964 / 480000 = 0.94784166
0.94784166 - 0 = 0.94784166
0.94784166 * 32 = 30.330933
Round up to 31, which corresponds to PP G4. Dumb question.....couldn't you just avoid the math and look on the face of the note and see the G4 ? |
|
Valued Member
United States
78 Posts |
Quote:
Dumb question.....couldn't you just avoid the math and look on the face of the note and see the G4 ? Of course! But half the fun of collecting is the data and the math  The reason the math becomes important is because the BEP does not publish the serial ranges of uncut sheet runs. So to determine the high and low serials for the run, it's necessary to work backwards starting with observed notes. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
Quote:
But half the fun of collecting is the data and the math To each their own Joe.....I lean more towards the history, the engravings, and the subject matter of the vignettes. |
| |
Replies: 14 / Views: 1,845 |
|
Posted 08/17/2016 10:52 pm
