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 Replies: 214 / Views: 30,632 |
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Valued Member
Canada
74 Posts |
As someone familiar with the process, there's not much to stop someone from making a "perfect" laser cut die if they wanted to invest the time to mastering the process. You can create a sub millimeter scan of an object with readily available commercial scanners and it's a matter of investing the time to correct the anomalies.
Alloys will be more difficult to match but if I were going to undertake this sort of endeavour I would, for example, use scrap '47 or '49 or similar coins to create my forged '48's from.
Well within the determined hobbyist's capabilities, I see people doing silver reclamation and then forging their own home brewed silver bars. For low speed production, I don't imagine the hydraulics pose any serious challenge, heck a bottle jack can apply 20 ton of pressure.
Heck thinkinkg more on it, you can 3D print metal directly if you really want to but it's a much more expensive process.
This is now wandering into lots of speculation on methods for the lone wolf counterfeiter but I guess my point is that if it's feasible for a lone wolf, it's certainly feasible for a determined shop setup somewhere that there's no fear of the law.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
About two years ago, I asked the distributor of Hass automation in the GTA if you can CAD a coin, after explaining I wasn't a counterfeiter, he ponder the question and said yes if you can create the planchets. I guess someone has the same idea overseas.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
I'm surprised no one is making circulation loonies. Perhaps they are.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1461 Posts |
That's a good point Red...At first glace you'd think that that would be a far more lucrative proposition. However, counterfeiting circulation coins would attract a lot of attention and resources to quash and prosecute whoever is doing it. No one really gives much attention and there doesn't seem to be much effort given address the collectible market counterfeits.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
Like I've said before, someone could create their own design with the queen on one side and whatever on the other. As long as it says Canada and $1, bad is the same size and colour as our loonie, I bet most stores/services would take them without thinking twice. There is so many different designs already, what's one more?
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Valued Member
Canada
74 Posts |
Ironically, unlike nickel dollars, where even some bank tellers give you a confused look.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The problem with doing a loonie or toonie is the what to do with them, banks charges fees for coin deposits and large deposit will raise questions as would spending large amounts, at the Winnipeg mint tour a few years ago, I asked the guide what it cost to produce a loonie, can't exactly remember either 9 or 11 cents, too much risk for little reward
Edited by john100
10/19/2016 11:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
90% profit seems pretty good to me. The risk seems the same to me. Counterfeiting is the same charge even for older coins. I suppose the return would be far greater with collectables but not many people scrutinize circulation coins so they would be caught less often.
Edited by Redzapsid
10/19/2016 11:30 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
90% profit is GREAT but think of the start up cost versus the amount you have to move!
Said nefarious organization would not only have to have a counterfeiting ring but a method to circulate the product. As it's already been stated it would be very VERY difficult.
Counterfeits collectables on the other hand are fantastic. The margins are exceedingly high, there's little or no interest or attraction from the law and if the product doesn't "move" you can always melt it down...
Which operation would you choose? One where you would always have to be looking over your shoulder and the margins are slim... versus one where you can operate with impunity and the margins are pretty large! It's a no brainer.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
The charges might be the same but people that need to lay them are not nearly as aggressive towards the collectible market as opposed to addressing problems with circulating currency that costs the government and bank lot's of money. I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect there is a government department likely dedicated to watching/tracking down potential sources of modern counterfeits.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
Well then, clearly you guys are better criminals than me. Lol.
Good points have been made.
Has anyone heard of counterfeit TTC tokens?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
For sure, unless you own tons of vending machines or coin ops business the red flag goes crazy, plus these CAD machines are approaching half million up not including a way to produce the planchets, much easier to produce a high grade 3000.00 coin semi key date that the RCM doesn't seam to care about this issue. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
Redzapsid: I'm sure there are counterfeit transit tokens... I'm just not sure if that's an operation that can scale upwards and generate any source of revenue.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
If I were a Chinese counterfeiter my sights would not be set on Canada. Too small a market, collector or circulation counterfeit coin = higher risk.
Which makes the examples contained within this thread all the more alarming....
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
John, I am a large coin roll hunter, who dumps rolled coins everyday (7 days a week), upwards of $2000 (some days closer to $4000). I don't have much hassles, other than the physical trouble of carrying heavy bags of coins into the bank.
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Replies: 214 / Views: 30,632 |
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Posted 10/19/2016 07:24 am
