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 Replies: 214 / Views: 30,625 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
Okie, thank you for trying to reach out to Mike Marshal and for infol. The folks on the Aussie board confirmed the Aussie coins are fake and someone out there got taken. Around $1500 cdn
It's alarming that there are only 3 negative feedback a for all the transactions the seller has done. Usually counterfeits sellers get nailed pretty quick, and the items sell for next to nothing. but this speaks to how good they are, so many have been fooled, as well as by the other seller, thousands of dollars in that one weeks auctions alone, all of them are counterfeit as well. No negatives, people are very happy with their purchases.
This is a new breed of counterfeit, something very convincing with these over the others with grainy surfaces soft devices anomalies etc. These mostly all look high grade BU mint, have cartwheel luster, the surfaces are very convincing, the dates and devices are near perfect.
These will certainly make their way into Canada, so when we buy in Canada, we should still look very close, especially when the coins are drool worthy in appearance.
I would like to hear what Mike M has to say
Would also really like to hear what ICCS has to say
Does anyone think the 1891 actually looks closer to an obverse 4?
Edited by Alan
10/17/2016 10:51 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2187 Posts |
It looks closer to an obv2 to me. An obv 4 has a rounded chin, while this one has more of a double chin. That being said, the broken lower serif in the D of DEI isn't present in 1891 obv 2 cents. It's more like the one you see in 1892 obv2 cents. Just my opinion.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5588 Posts |
Yes, it looks much closer to an Obv 2 to me as well ... a 4 has a rounded chin and slightly different truncation.
Edited by okiecoiner
10/17/2016 12:20 pm
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
Quote:
but I'm trying to negotiate a refund and retain the coins so they can be used as research. If so, I would like to XRF them... Canadian large cents struck at The Royal Mint have a pretty tight compositional range. These potentially look like pure copper, and not bronze... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1461 Posts |
Here is an 1891 Obv 2 SLSD I own.  Here is an Obv 3 LLSD I also have  Edited by TheCoinHunter
10/17/2016 12:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5588 Posts |
Coinhunter: Yours is a nice coin, but the fake SD/LL coin is the one with the re-engraved foot on the N in Regina ... making it an extremely scarce coin, if there even are any with the Obv marriage to a SD/LL
Edited by okiecoiner
10/17/2016 2:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
Okiecoiner. Nether of these above are fakes. The 1891 believed to be counterfeit is a LLSD posted earlier in the thread. Did I miss something?
Edited by TheCoinHunter
10/17/2016 1:08 pm
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
Are you sure it is not the top serif of the N in REGINA Bill? Compare the fake one with Rob's coin (page 6 of this thread)... The real coin has strong full serif on top of the 'N', the fake one is short to the outside, longer in the inside and not straight....
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5588 Posts |
For 1891, all of the Obv 2 dies had the left foot of the N in Regina damaged/missing/corrupted EXCEPT for a single Obv 2 die. THAT Obv 2 die struck only LL/LD coins. The fakes shown and linked are for an Obv 2 die with the R/E N, but with a SD Reverse.
Coin Hunter .. I know that the 2 that you showed last are not fakes, but they also are NOT Obv 2's with the repaired N. That's what I was trying to say. Until Rob chimes in the say that Obv O2S-L10 also struck SD reverses, then I stick by what I have said so far... that the repaired left foot N obv 2 struck only LD coins.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
OC, Now that the reference to the LLSD in the above post was corrected, it makes sense. Interesting.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5588 Posts |
Yes, I corrected my reference to it being a SL Reverse .. it is obviously a LL reverse. There were references to 4 different coins in the thread and my fingers got ahead of my brain.
It makes no difference .. according to Rob's book (and I sent him every 1891 that I had for his study, maybe 70-80), the working Obverse 2 dies ALL had a missing/damaged left foot on the N in Regina ... except for a single Obv 2. And that single Obv 2 die was only married to a LL/LD Reverse die. I've tried to contact him on if there are/were any corrections to the 1891 section of "Dies and Diadems". I hope that he chimes in.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1049 Posts |
I'm not sure if anyone has been able to reach Mike. I got an email from him just over a week ago and he has been quite busy this past while to the point of not even picking up a coin in weeks. So he may be hard to reach right now.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
*removed*
This is however something that should be shown to "Bobby" the mod as he's able to shut down a few of these sellers through e-bay. This is very very scary though when stuff gets through ICCS... especially a 1914 with an Edward effigy that part just confuses me... then the quality of the impressions is pretty good. This stuff WILL fool the average collector.
Edited by AgCoinAu
10/17/2016 5:24 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1222 Posts |
I'll not comment on whether the 1891 is real or not but to my knowledge there're no known LLSD paired with this particular obv. 2.
As okie has pointed out the only known Obv. 2 LLSD has the missing serif on the "N" in Regina and the top serif on the "D" in Canada. If this coin is real it would be a discovery of a new die pair.
As everyone knows the obv. 2 used for the 1891 cents were a carryover from 1888.
I've looked at a lot of 1888's and this obverse indeed looks like an obverse that was used for much of the 1888 coinage including up to or close to the end.
The picture of Rob's coin that Allen has shown is of an obverse 2 but I don't think it's from an 1891 so hard to compare because they're different dies.
As far as I know there're no 1891 obv 2's with a full serif on the bottom of the "D" in "DEI". This serif broke from the punch early in the 1888 coinage.
If someone has produced this from a coin or from a photo of a coin then a strong candidate is an 1888. There are several indicators one being the broken serif leaving just the stub on the "D" in DEI.
Second the lower serif on the "N" in Regina is a familiar wedge shape as seen in 1888 and the top serif on the "D" in Canada is in the same fragile condition seen on 1888's also.
With that said because 1891 obv 2's are a carryover from 1888 there is the possibility that this coin could exist.
Cheers, Bill
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
AG, The problem trying to shut down the sellers is that they surface up minutes later. Until ebay takes the whole thing seriously and actually allocates some resources to it (not only with coins but other collectibles), it will continue. I've been in contact with the seller of these particular coins. In talking to him I'm intuitively 50/50 whether the seller knew what they were actually selling (in this case). Canadian and US coins exist and surface all the time in Europe and it's actually a fertile ground for some Canadian rarities. I bought a beautiful 1896 Red, 1/1 1859, 6/9 1859, very valuable Denver 2.50 Indian US, etc...He says he bought them from another dealer/friend. I'm trying to get him to reveal the names of this person and the other 3 buyers and in particularly the buyer of the 1922 cent but for now he won't. Although the refund is on the table, I'm hesitant to ship the coins back without somehow marking them as copy. Edited by TheCoinHunter
10/17/2016 5:34 pm
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Replies: 214 / Views: 30,625 |
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Posted 10/17/2016 10:44 am
