Currencies Of The German States - The List - Page 3

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DL20K Pillar of the Community Poland 3201 Posts	Posted 02/12/2017 05:49 am Joseph7420, Florin added, Livre added (both with a note that it's siege coinage), Sol added. Thank you very much Now the Liard is not as straightforward. The French say these coins are French. This will have to be verified. Spott, we did have the Leichter Pfennig, but not from Goslar. Now added. Thanks as well! - - - And finally, here are my additions from the last few days, so that we don't duplicate our efforts. New entries: Witten Earliest I found: here Latest I found: here From Bamberg: Guter Heller (1761-1762) and Leichter Pfenning (1762). Leichter Pfenning was also in use in Muhlhausen. There's also something called Ort and Reichsort from Brunswick-L.-C. but I've not looked for details on these yet. From Fugger-Babenhausen, Augsburg, etc. kreuzers with Kreizer spelling. Sosling and Soesling for Sechsling (examples). Pfenig (with one N) from Leiningen-Dagsburg-Hartenburg (1805, from Krause). There also were Groschen in Bavaria. Or at least a 4-groschen piece. Lastly, 1673 new early date for Guter Pfennig (from Brunswick.-L.-C., illustrated in Krause). Report this Post to the Staff
DL20K Pillar of the Community Poland 3201 Posts	Posted 02/12/2017 05:50 am Currencies of the German States - updated list for page 3: Albus [Ag, 1609-1793]: (many states) Atribuo [Cu, 1809]: Judenpfennig Centime [Cu, 1808-1812]: Westphalia Denar [Cu, 1747]: Silesia Denier [Cu, 1758]: Brunswick-Wolfenbuettel Dreiling [Ag, 1726-1855]: Hamburg, Lubeck, Lauenburg, Schleswig-Holstein, Mecklenburg-Schwerin Ducat / Ducaten / Ducatus [Au, 1635-1825]: (many states) Flitter [Cu, 1620-1621]: Hildesheim, Goslar, Einbeck, Brunswick, Brunswick-Wolfenbuettel, Hameln Florin [Ag]: Landau (siege coinage) Frank [Ag, 1808-1813]: Westphalia Groschen [Ag, 1684-1870]: Prussia, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, Bavaria - Guter Groschen [Ag, 1671-1834]: Prussia, Hannover, Anhalt-Bernburg, Stolberg-Wernigerode - Mariengroschen [Ag, 1621-1834]: (many states) - Neugroschen [Ag, 1841-1873]: Saxony, Saxe-Altenburg - Silber Groschen [Ag, 1821-1873]: (many states) Grossus called Groschen in literature [[Ag/Cu, 1475-1797]: Saxony (Spitzgroschen), Prussia (for East and West Prussia) Gröschel [Ag, 1745-1809]: Prussia (for Silesia) Gröscher (not found spelled out on coins?) Groten / Grote / Groot [Ag, 1621-1864]: Bremen, Oldenburg, Verden, Jever, Knyphausen Gulden [Ag, 1753-1871]: (many states) - Goldgulden [Au, 1749-1756]: Brunswick-Calenberg-Hannover - Mariengulden [Ag, 1623-1624]: Brunswick-Wolfenbuettel Halbag [Cu, 1818]: Judenpfennig (only 1/4 h. issued) Heller [Cu, 1703-1866]: (many states) - Guter Heller [Cu, 1761-1762]: Bamberg Kreuzer / Kreutzer / Kreizer [Cu/Ag, 1620-1873]: (many states) - Convention Kreuzer [Ag, 1765-1805]: Frankfurt, Saxe-Meiningen - Leichter Kreutzer [Cu, 1752-1763]: Wurzburg, Bamberg Krone [Au, 1857-1871]: Prussia, Saxony, Hannover, Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel Livre [Ag]: Landau (siege coinage) Marck [Ag, 1707-1754]: Aachen Mark [Ag, 1872-1918]: all states post-unification Mattier / Matier [Cu/Ag, 1634-1799]: Brandenburg, Schaumburg-Lippe, Minden, Schaumburg-Hessen, Lippe-Detmold Ort - Reichsort Petermenger / Petermentger [Ag, 1689-1747]: Trier Pistole [Au, 1763-1803]: Brunswick-Calenberg-Hannover, Hildesheim Pfennig / Pfenning / Pfenig [Cu, 1621-1873]: (many states) - Guter Pfennig / Guter Pfenning [Ag/Cu, 1673-1832]: Anhalt, Hildesheim, Mecklenburg-Strelitz, Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach, Schaumburg-Lippe, Schaumburg-Hessen, Brunswick - Leichter Pfenning [Cu, 1749-1767]: Bamberg, Muhlhausen, Goslar - Schaupfennig [Cu, 1738]: Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (8 s.) -- Guter Schaupfennig [Cu, 1738]: Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (8 g.s.) - Zollpfennig [Cu, 1766-1777]: Hesse-Darmstadt, Pfalz-Kurlinie Ropell [Cu, 1816]: Judenpfennig (only 1/4 r. issued) Scherf, Scharf [Cu, 1570-1751]: (many states) Schilling / Solidus [Ag/Cu, 1623-1849]: Luebeck, Hamburg, Muenster, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Mecklenburg-Strelitz Schwaren [Cu, 1719-1869]: Bremen, Oldenburg Sechsling / Sosling / Soesling [Ag, 1726-1855]: Hamburg, Schleswig-Holstein, Bremen Sol [Cu, 1793]: Mainz (siege coinage) Stuber [Ag, 1738-1825]: Berg, Cologne, Eastern Friesland, Kleve, Hesse-Darmstadt, Jever Thaler [Ag, 1691-1866]: (many states) - Conventionthaler [Ag, 1772-1772]: Baden - Kronenthaler [Ag, 1825-1836]: Baden, Wuerttemberg, Hesse-Darmstadt - Reichsthaler / Reichsdaler [Ag, 1632-1818]: Prussia, Mecklenburg-Strelitz - Speciestaler [Ag, 1787-1821]: Brunswick-Wolfenbuettel, Schleswig-Holstein - Vereinsthaler [Ag, 1857-1871]: (many states) Theler [Cu, 1703, 1807]: Judenpfennig Witten [Ag, 1637-1763]: Pomerania, Stralsund, Mecklenburg-Güstrow Report this Post to the Staff
Joseph7420 Bedrock of the Community Canada 11922 Posts	Posted 02/12/2017 4:21 pm Quote: Now the Liard is not as straightforward. The French say these coins are French. This will have to be verified. Interesting. Would the one from Lorraine (this one) or the ones from Mompelgart (these ones) be in the same situation as well? On some different notes... The Goldgulden was also made in Würzburg, with a newer date of 1786. Berg had a Cassa Thaler. And the Reichsthaler/Reichsdaler can have many more states added to it (or maybe it should be changed to (many states)?) They can be found in: Brandenburg, Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel, Dortmund, Fulda, Hesse-Cassel, Jever, Jülich-Berg, Lippe-Detmold, Lübeck, Münster, Paderborn, Pommern, Saxe-Eisenach, Stralsund, Wied-Neuwied, and Württemberg-Oels. Report this Post to the Staff
DL20K Pillar of the Community Poland 3201 Posts	Posted 02/13/2017 05:46 am Joseph7420, thanks again - Cassathaler added, Wurzburg added for Goldgulden, Reichsthaler entry changed to "many states". My additions: New early date for Groschen: Minden - 8 groschen 1634. I guess you'll have to take my word that it actually says "Groschen". Or check Krause New early date for Leichter Pfennig: 1737 from Muhlhausen. New early date and state for Kronenthaler: 1817 from Nassau (Krause). New late date for Ducat: 1856 from Frankfurt (Krause). And finally, Mecklenburg-Schwerig had pfennigs spelled as "pfening". - - - As for your Liards, the German site lists Lothringen among the sub-categories for German States. Wikipedia says the French did not gain full control of the area until 1766, so perhaps we actually should include the Liard. Though I must say I would like to hear the German standpoint on it. Perhaps Potsdam visits the thread again and weighs in on the subject. Undecided matters list: - are Liards from Lothringen considered German coins? - is SOLID (as opposed to SOLIDUS) an abbreviation or an alternate spelling? Report this Post to the Staff
Potsdam Valued Member Germany 303 Posts	Posted 02/13/2017 09:09 am Well Solid appears to be the abbreviation for Solidus (Schilling) on Prussian coins. Regarding the Liards from Lothringen I have to admit that I am not really familiar with German States coins of that region. However, I'd consider Lothringen rather as a part of France (historically, it is just closer connected to France). Anyway, I came across another denomination that has not been mentioned here. It's a Prussian one that I will probably not be able to afford within the next couple of years. It is the Friedrich d'Or, a Prussian Gold coin (in English literature referred to as Frederick d'or) and it was minted from around 1750 until around 1855. Shortly before that period, there also was a Friedrich-Wilhelm d'or (sometimes only referred to as Wilhelm d'or), minted from 1737 until 1740. The Saxon counterpart of these coins is the August d'or, minted from around 1750 until around 1850 (there was a break of about 2 decades though in which they were not minted). Anyway, you will not find the denomination written on the coins. Actually none of them have a denomination written on them. People could tell whether it was a 1/2 Friedrich d'or or 1 or 2 Friedrich d'or by checking the weight of the coins. Here you can see one of these beautiful pieces from Prussia: https://www.kuenker.de/de/archiv/stueck/51801 Edited by Potsdam 02/13/2017 09:11 am Report this Post to the Staff
DL20K Pillar of the Community Poland 3201 Posts	Posted 02/13/2017 2:49 pm Thanks again! I've added the gold coins you mentioned with appropriate notes. Added: from a Wikipedia article on the Krone, we had the dates correct but we were missing one state (Bavaria), that has now been corrected. - - - Now what about this coin - 21 Batzen 1799? Is this the only German coin with the denomination written in Batzen? I can't find it in Krause under Prussia, Brandenburg-Prussia, or Neuenburg (there is no Neuenburg at all), what is it then? And is 1799 the only date? And then, what about this - DVTT from Bentheim? Report this Post to the Staff
Potsdam Valued Member Germany 303 Posts	Posted 02/13/2017 4:03 pm @DL20K If you got the Krause Catalog of German coins from 1500 check the listed coins for Frankenthal. They also minted Batzen when the city was besieged. Regarding the 21 Batzen from Prussia I cannot really decide if I'd add it to the list. Neuenburg / Neuchatel formally was part of the Prussian Kingdom and literature focussing on Prussian coins always lists the coins that have been minted for Neuenburg. Technically, it was part of a German State for a couple of decades. In these matters, I wouldn't put too much trust into what's listed in the Krause catalogue. But the more I actually think about it, the more I tend do classify these Batzen denominations from Neuenburg as German States coins even though the denominations were basically taken over from the Swiss predecessors. Report this Post to the Staff
DL20K Pillar of the Community Poland 3201 Posts	Posted 02/13/2017 4:44 pm Once again, thank you for your input. I think I may not be the best-suited person to compile this list... I added the Batzen, both from Frankenthal and Prussia (with a note that they were minted for Neuenburg). The 7-1/2 Batzen from Frankenthal has been added to the Odd denominations thread as well as it isn't a particularly common face value. What about the Bentheim coin I linked to in my previous post? Does it have something to do with the Dutch (DVTT = duit?) Report this Post to the Staff
paralyse Bedrock of the Community United States 12057 Posts	Posted 02/24/2017 01:05 am 361911931018 1 "Kopfstück" (headpiece? bridle?) from Fulda, dated 1725. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Report this Post to the Staff
DL20K Pillar of the Community Poland 3201 Posts	Posted 02/24/2017 12:33 pm paralyse, interesting, I've never heard about it before! Now that I have checked it, Krause lists it as a 20-kreuzer piece. These had only a 5-year run. And apparently there was a fraction called "Böhmisch". A great find altoghether - thanks a lot! Both have now been added to the list. Also found a Kreuzer spelled with an initial "C" from Gutenburg. They also had a gulden dated 1694, so that's a new early date (from Krause). Edited by DL20K 02/24/2017 12:35 pm Report this Post to the Staff
retiredkper Pillar of the Community United States 541 Posts	Posted 02/24/2017 12:35 pm This topic can be very tricky! I have collected German coins for 50+ years and worked on a lot of the KP books Germanic listings. Many of the coins do not carry a stated denomination; thalers and ducats for example. Many of the coins circulated with nic-names, for example coins called groschens often have the number 3 (kreuzer)as the only indication of value but the old time "collectors" of German coins insist on collecting them as groschens. I tried to list the coins correctly when I rewrote the Austrian section years ago and created a fire storm. My version was the correct way. Anyone who was not knowledgeable could have used my method to attribute a coin with only the information on the coin. Alas "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" and the SCWC reverted back to the old ways. There is a book: The Germanic Coinages by William Craig 1954,which does a great job listing the many German denominations and explains the various currency systems. Report this Post to the Staff
DL20K Pillar of the Community Poland 3201 Posts	Posted 02/24/2017 1:35 pm Quote: There is a book: The Germanic Coinages by William Craig 1954 Considering the scope of the subject, I expected a book covering it must exist. Thanks for mentioning it, especially since it is in English (as this Forum will attract mostly English-speakers). I highlighted the title so that it is more noticeable to someone going through the thread in the future. That said, I'd like to continue with this list, specifically mentioning the denominations that actually feature on the coins. I have only used KP books from the 1990s so I do not know in what way they have changed since then but one slighly annoying thing about them is/was that the German coins for each state are/were not listed from the smallest to the largest like for other countries. For example, for Prussia, the 1/48 thalers are after the 4 groschen coins. The 1/48 are smaller and older than the 4 groschen, so there is no value progression, nor is there a monetary system by date progression. Edited by DL20K 02/24/2017 1:38 pm Report this Post to the Staff
retiredkper Pillar of the Community United States 541 Posts	Posted 02/24/2017 5:47 pm You have it DL!! that is the old way that SCWC reverted to. I tried to change it to where for example all the denominations ending in thaler would start listing with 1/48 and and end up in the multi thalers instead of the 1/48 thalers followed by a coin of non-thaler denomination because it was the next higher value coin in the system at the time of issue. You have to be a near expert to use the SCWC as it is now. Report this Post to the Staff
DL20K Pillar of the Community Poland 3201 Posts	Posted 05/24/2017 11:08 am Two more currencies of the German States: Gosken (Hameln). Issued during 1620-21 in denominations of 1, 1-1/2, 2 and 3. Guter Kreuzer (Hatzfeld-Gleichen). Issued in 1684 (and also undated) as 3 g.kr. These two may be difficult to find. In both cases there are no images in Krause (just descriptions), none of them are listed at MA-Shops, and there's nothing on ebay at the moment. Report this Post to the Staff
january1may Pillar of the Community Russian Federation 5177 Posts	Posted 09/01/2017 11:00 am I don't think you have the spelling "Pennig" yet - coins spelled thusly were made at Schmalkalden (1 pennig 1730 and 1733, apparently; found on this site about coins under Swedish occupation, which has photos of both dates, and also mentions a 1-1/2 pennig but doesn't have a photo). Could be a typo though or not count because of the Swedish occupation! Apparently several German states (some, but not all, under Swedish occupation) issued coins in fractions of a "reichsdaler". I was able to find examples from Pomerania, Stralsund, Rostock, Wismar, Lubeck, and Bremen-Verden (the latter sometimes abbreviated it to RD, but examples with full spelling also exist). And while we're at this: an 1636 coin of Rostock (as seen here) has the hilarious denomination of ·EIN·HALB.REICHES OHRT·HALB· - this is to say, half of a half "reiches ohrt" (i.e. 1/4 Reichsort). A few other places made (usually 1/2) Reichsort coins; Harburg, in 1623, occasionally spelled it "Reisort". Report this Post to the Staff
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