| Author |
 Replies: 130 / Views: 10,371 |
|
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
If I'm not mistaken they can still file a suit against you and you will still have to have a lawyer to represent you in court (it may not cost them a thing to file a suit if they have a lawyer on retainer) not to mention air fare and time off work to go to court for the frivolous law suit before it is ever thrown out because there is no basis for the suit, so you could have allot of money tied up in something which you could have avoided if you worded it correctly
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1130 Posts |
The case will be thrown out once you prove to the judge that the coin was counterfeit. Put it this way, if they are selling fakes on ebay, the last thing they want is a court hearing. All it will do is further expose them and maybe they will get subpoenaed to say where they obtained them. Scammers never want to stick around and wait for the authorities to check them out and do full investigations. Edited by 1sikevo
04/14/2008 6:35 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
well I have waisted enough time on this subject, I just wanted everyone to be aware of what could happen and I think I have done that, what ever happens now is on the other person and I will have a clear conscious (<--spelling)
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1208 Posts |
Bryan,
I believe you are correct, and giving good advice.
I also know that if I was buying these coins, I would feel warm and fuzzy if someone in the know passed his concerns along to me.
Help the folks, it is our duty, but heed the advice "watch how you word it"...
My .02
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1130 Posts |
Bryan - I predict posts about counterfeits and scams will multiply. Those Chinese counterfeits have to go somewhere and unfortunately, ebay is a prime market. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
well if you look in the ebay section we already discovered 2 more auctions with fake PCGS slabs with fake $20.00 gold double eagles in them. These were very good fake slabs also but the one thing they did wrong was the same seller had the same coin offered in two different auctions and the certification number was invalid, other than that they were pretty good and one even had bids up close to $1000.00. I think these fake slabs is where they will get allot of people because they are pretty good fake slabs and they will probably change hands a couple of times before they are ever found out to be counterfeit. I predict these will end up at coin shows with not only pocket dealers but real dealers with tables as well trying to sell them unknowing they are fakes |
|
Valued Member
United States
96 Posts |
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mine is out for grading so we'll see - NGC takes way to long.
There was only one issue I saw on this coin that made me a bit suspicious...
It's on the reverse - see if your friends can figure it out...
Hate to see it fake, then I'd have to turn him over to my good friends in the Fed's :-0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE keep this board updated on this one..an 1889 CC in AU + condition for $1600. I will DIE if it's real! LOL Becuse I should have bid on it then! Thanks....or was that the 1877 Trade dollar...I am getting so confused here! Edited by fasteddie
04/14/2008 10:41 pm
|
|
Valued Member
United States
96 Posts |
did I hear someone bring up the infamous producer of SGS GRADED COINS HERE?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
527 Posts |
Bryan1315, I'm sorry for getting you into this.  Counterfeiting rings are much more sophisticated than many people believe. Many of us are under the assumption that sellers work alone. What needs to be taken into consideration is that when a fraudulent seller is trying to build a reputation on ebay, they buy and sell to themselves or accomplices. You need to look at their feed back and see if they have multiple sales to one or more buyers, That buyer is possibly a fake account or an accomplices account. So when you think you are doing the right thing and notifying a buyer, you may in fact be tipping the seller off that someone is onto him. This will in turn make it more difficult to catch him. Receiving a reply from a buyer who seems to not care, indicates to me the possibility that he may be involved. Your good intent may be a hindrance in the long run. Your concern is more beneficial if you notify ebay, or the proper authorities. Second thing to consider is that when you give a link to this forum, it could place liability on the people who run this web site. This is a place for discussion, and education, not for policing ebay. I see no problem with posting ebay items on here and discussing their authenticity amongst ourselves, but that should be the extent of it. If you feel a moral obligation, you should report things through the proper channels, and do so personally. Be careful not to implicate this forum, as it is your opinion not "ours". We would all be upset if the people who run this web site got sued for something we posted here. I want this site to be around for a long time, lets all do our part to ensure that it is. We all want to see counterfeiting stopped. We just need to be careful we report things properly. As you can see, I have been active in this topic as well, and I have been very agitated by what appears to be counterfeit coins. I just want to make sure we are protecting ourselves and the forum legally. I also want to make sure we are doing what needs to be done to catch the criminals. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
quote:
The case will be thrown out once you prove to the judge that the coin was counterfeit. [/quote
But that may take a year or more and you still owe your lawyer. And you will probably have to be trying to prove the coin was fake without actually having the coin in hand to people who haven't got a clue how to tell a real coin from a fake one an ho have no knowledge of die varieties. Proving it is a fake to those people may be more difficult than you might think
quote:
did I hear someone bring up the infamous producer of SGS GRADED COINS HERE?
I don't think so.
[quote]First and foremost, this is fraud and/or intent to fraud of a US coin, or a replica, and passing it as genuine, which is illegal. If true, the seller has no legal basis to stand on.
Problem, you are going to have to prove that the seller knew it was a fake. If he didn't know then he was acting in good faith and there was no fraudulent intent and therefor no fraud was committed. And you had better be able to do so be cause the case we are talking about is a liable case against you (or whoever) that claimed he (the seller) was committing fraud. He says his reputation has been damaged and he wants compensation. Since it can be very difficult to prove what he knew the case drags the legal fees mount and typically the defendant pays the plaintiff (the seller) a settlement to just make it all go away. And the seller wins. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
quote:
Problem, you are going to have to prove that the seller knew it was a fake.
 I wonder if we're splitting hairs here. After all, if you simply warn a buyer that you doubt the coin's authenticity, you're not accusing the seller directly of intent to defraud, are you? That's not libel, but an opinion. There's a big difference, imho  But--if the seller comes after me on the FE, I'll simply ask for Rick Snow's "expert witness" input on the coin. I'm in his FE/IHC club and I think he readily offer help against a case like that Edited by KurtS
04/15/2008 4:26 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
You guys need to listen to Brian and Conder. Although what these scumbags are doing is nothing short of criminal, you have to be very careful contacting buyers (who for all you know could be the seller's shill id). There are other venues to shut these people down that will not expose you to libel suits, such as contacting ebay directly. Believe it or not, contacting ebay is often effective and especially so if the coins are fakes. If any of you were around when acg launched it's libel suits against select members of the CU boards (they were reading the boards), and saw how much it cost some of those folks.......... Contact ebay directly. Edited by hadleydog
04/16/2008 12:30 pm
|
|
Valued Member
United States
96 Posts |
I agree, BUT I did email the svdb buyer..he was quite appreciative and promised to get back to me after he got the coin authenticated. I only said something like " the seller of the coin you bought has been under much discussion on some coin boards as to whether or not this coin is authentic. As a concerned member of the coin collecting community, may I only suggest you get the coin authenticated. This is in no way intended other than to be informative and express the concern of the coin community" If the seller decides to sue me for libel, I guess I'd go to China and buy some counterfeits, to pay him off!  Thanks Eddie Edited by fasteddie
04/16/2008 8:47 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1208 Posts |
quote:
fasteddie:
The seller of the coin you bought has been under much discussion on some coin boards as to whether or not this coin is authentic. As a concerned member of the coin collecting community, may I only suggest you get the coin authenticated. This is in no way intended other than to be informative and express the concern of the coin community
Very good wording. When these suspicions pop up, maybe we just copy/paste this into the ebay message form. Easy-cheezy... Edited by ratio411
04/16/2008 8:51 pm
|
|
Valued Member
United States
96 Posts |
And if they decided to sue me: quote:
If I'm not mistaken they can still file a suit against you and you will still have to have a lawyer to represent you in court
I'd make my appearance in court pro se saying merely: "Res Ipsa Loquitur" (it's Latin Google it if needed) Disclaimer: That's what I would do...I am retired with a great deal of time...not suggesting this action for anyone BUT myself! Nuff Said fast Eddie Edited by fasteddie
04/16/2008 9:03 pm
|
| |
Replies: 130 / Views: 10,371 |
First Page
Previous Page
Posted 04/14/2008 6:21 pm
