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1913-S Lincoln Cent Weak 3 Variety Or Worn Out?

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 1,543Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
batboy's Avatar
United States
650 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2017  03:51 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add batboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Got a Celestron 5 mp pro digital scope, so I had to test it out. This 1913-S was handy so I threw it on first. I noticed the second T in the word TRUST is mostly missing (except the top of the letter). I tried to google it and came up with several people asking about the weak T and also about the weak 3 in the date which I hadn't keyed in on at first. So I say, "ah ha" and think this is a type of variety, but then I can't find anything else to nail it down. Of course this is a heavily worn coin, so these features might just be due to damage or wear. I know, right? I sound like a newbie. My gut feeling it's wear or even part of the T being Struck Through Grease. But why are there other 1913-S Lincolns with a partially missing T and weak 3? Anyone else heard of this or seen it before?

1913-S-Lincoln-Cent-Weak-3-Variety-Or-Worn--Out?
Edited by batboy
03/09/2017 03:52 am
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2017  08:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like the coin has been strongly cleaned. You can see on the bust heavy scratch lines. But I feel the weakness on TRUST is from a medium blockage of grease in the die.

I'm not sure what lighting you are using. But it is a bit too low as the image looks grainy. If you are using a multi bulb light, then it would explain why the image seems grainy. A good image editing program will enhance the image a bit. But the lighting source needs to be addressed first. Could you take an image of the set up for your system? That might be a help to see what you are dealing with. (if you want to improve your images?)
1913-S-Lincoln-Cent-Weak-3-Variety-Or-Worn--Out?
Edited by coop
03/09/2017 09:06 am
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batboy's Avatar
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650 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2017  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add batboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop, thanks for your insight into my photography. As I said, this is a brand new digital microscope. Probably no need to take a pic of my "setup" because I was only using the LED lights that come with the unit. I dialed the light down because it looked more true color-wise. But, now that you point out the graininess it seems so obvious (to my defense it was really late last night when I tried taking the pic). Maybe I should have went to bed instead. ;)

Another "problem" I discovered as soon as you mentioned graininess was resolution. The software defaults at low resolution for some reason, so the first pic was shot using 2 MP resolution. I discovered I have to manually set the resolution to 5 MP each time I open the capture program. The other issue is as you said, lighting or rather lack of lighting (I had turned off the overhead room light too).

To address the lighting I have two photography lamps that my Dad used back in the old film days when he did some copy work (which are still boxed up at the moment). The stand that came with my Celestron scope has minimum up and down adjustment (you can see I can't get the whole coin into the photo). I have ordered a piece of 24" long stainless steel tube that has a 5/8" diameter to replace the short tube that it originally come with (5.5" long). I figure I'll need a rod that is about 12" to 14" long. Ok, I'm rambling, long story short, I'm working on my photography setup.

Back to the 1913-S LWC, is this photo better? It's using the full 5 MP resolution and I have tried to supplement the lighting a bit for now until I get something better cobbled together.

1913-S-Lincoln-Cent-Weak-3-Variety-Or-Worn--Out?
Edited by batboy
03/09/2017 11:50 am
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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94367 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2017  5:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree most likely grease effects. I'm sure no expert, but I don't see this cleaning issue - just looks like an old worn out wheatie to me.
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batboy's Avatar
United States
650 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2017  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add batboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh yeah, this bad boy is wore out. But, the 1913-S is also sort of a semi-key date. This one I found in circulation back in my younger days. I've upgraded the coin, so this one is an extra now.

The Kansas quarter comes to mind with the first T in TRUST filled with grease to make it say, "IN GOD WE RUST." It might also explain why there were others with a missing T. I have one of these too (see crappy pic). That one might be my next victim to photograph.

1913-S-Lincoln-Cent-Weak-3-Variety-Or-Worn--Out?
Edited by batboy
03/09/2017 9:15 pm
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coop's Avatar
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62064 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2017  01:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now it is just a bit too light. You might try using a sheet of bond paper to diffuse it a bit. (Sometimes you need two sheets) that will give you the needed light and not bleach out the color.
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batboy's Avatar
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650 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2017  5:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add batboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I go from one extreme to the other, I guess.

Those old photography lights I got from my father are not going to work. They aren't copy lights like I thought, these are big studio lights with 12" reflectors. I need something much smaller in order to fit into my man cave (den).

This is the best photo I can do for now.

1913-S-Lincoln-Cent-Weak-3-Variety-Or-Worn--Out?
Edited by batboy
03/10/2017 5:56 pm
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batboy's Avatar
United States
650 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2017  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add batboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, wait a sec. Not sure if this will help but I also have a photo I took with my old Canon. It was of the whole album page, but I cropped out just the 1913-S.

1913-S-Lincoln-Cent-Weak-3-Variety-Or-Worn--Out?
Edited by batboy
03/10/2017 5:45 pm
Rest in Peace
Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2017  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Batboy, even tho the lighting is off, sometimes that shows other points of interest. I do think the T is a filled die issue, the # may be weak, but most all 1913 coins seem to lose the 3 in circulation no matter what mint. That's either a master die issue or just the wear factor. All the early teen's seemed to wear on the outer devices first.

What I'm seeing is in the area of the field below the missing T and down almost to date seems more "worn" for a lack of term, pushed in more on the right side of the field.
Something to do w/ polished die perhaps? Don't see that so much on most recent pic?

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Coinfrog's Avatar
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94367 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2017  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That pic helps a lot - no way there is a cleaning issue here.
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