| Author |
 Replies: 33 / Views: 4,901 |
|
|
|
Valued Member
United States
50 Posts |
Yeah, it's a good counterfeit, but still a counterfeit nonetheless.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18665 Posts |
I'm in the counterfeit boat as well
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
The rims and the reverse lettering don't look good to me at all. It might be the angle of the photo, but from what I can see, I'd say counterfeit.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1959 Posts |
I'm going with counterfeit also. Lettering and spacing markers compared to the genuine coin above don't match in half a dozen areas I saw right off the bat.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11888 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Yours looks to be fromorm the same die the silver "High Quality" fake I deliberately bought some years ago when Bit Tree (Chinese counterfeiters) were allowed to sell on ebay. I bought a bunch of fakes back then to study and post results on CCF. I used the site at the link below after getting my fake to see how far off it is. The site is very easy to use. Make sure to look for details such as exact positioning of stars on the reverse. Also look at small details like the shape of the serifs on lettering, and where the individual arms on the stars point to. One of the eBay-Chinese fakes fit these pics perfectly except one of the stars on the reverse obviously pointed to the wrong letters in the motto. Also, the bottoms of the serifs were "wavy" as compared to the pics on this site. http://www.earlydollars.org/wizarddate3.htmHow much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1298 Posts |
oleg212, If you are truly concerned about the authenticity of this coin, go ahead and have a third party (PCGS or NGC) grade it. Should cost between $70-$75. Will give you peace of mind.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
Quote:
I'm going with counterfeit also. Lettering and spacing markers compared to the genuine coin above don't match in half a dozen areas I saw right off the bat. One of the problems with comparing the spacing and positions of letters and other devices is that there are 22 varieties of 1799 Bust Dollars including the three 1799 over 8 varieties. Therefore one coin can differ from another because of the considerable hand work that went into the preparation of each die. BUT you can't depend on the varieties either. The Chinese are now using genuine coins to model their dies so that they can make fakes that match up with the known die varieties. It's a real mess, and it's one of the reasons why we all need to band together against the counterfeit problem. I refuse to buy any Chinese coins, including the Pandas which some collectors like, until the Chinese Government addresses the problem. I am not happy with the Gray Sheet company which is now marketing a new bid sheet for Chinese coins. Yes, the Chinese offer a huge market with lots of opportunities, but it's s two way street. Their unethical and illegal behavior should not be rewarded. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Quote:
oleg212, If you are truly concerned about the authenticity of this coin, go ahead and have a third party (PCGS or NGC) grade it. Should cost between $70-$75. Will give you peace of mind.   Why waste the money? They won't even tell you WHY the coin is fake (Hint...it keeps them in business so they feed off of the hobby). Making 4 mouse clicks nails this one down simply. Click 1: http://www.earlydollars.org/wizarddata.asp?ID=117Click 2, 3, and 4: Click on the pictorial guide on that site and find the following is the only one that yours comes close to: http://www.earlydollars.org/wizarddata.asp?ID=117 I put numerous color coded differences in the following pics - compare from one pic to another: white to white, red to red, etc. Now look at details of the design, lettering. Also draw lines through devices to see how the layout compares. Even if you do not have the ability to do this onscreen or in a graphics program, and cannot print out the pics and use a ruler, the differences in the lettering alone is sufficient.   Even just using the long white line (compared to the long black line on the other picture) shows this is a fake. It takes just one long line. Even the picture angles being different would not vary the line this much. There you go: Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Send a coin in to a TPG, keep the unnecessary services alive. Show a fellow collector how simple it is to find the info for themselves (fast and free), save that friend from wasting money. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2843 Posts |
Earle42 GREAT demo. Thanks.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1959 Posts |
Quote:
One of the problems with comparing the spacing and positions of letters and other devices is that there are 22 varieties of 1799 Bust Dollars including the three 1799 over 8 varieties. Therefore one coin can differ from another because of the considerable hand work that went into the preparation of each die. Absolutely billjones. Someone had mentioned it matched that particular coin shown in comparison photos above. I should have mentioned that there were many other die marriages it could match. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Glad to help. This is all part of the fun of the hobby for me: playing Sherlock Holmes and sharing it with others. I admit I also like to, hopefully, show people the TPGs are not worthy of the faith/worship they receive. Part of their very continued existence is only b/c they are not accountable. Let;s face it, even the people who have a lot of faith in them know this or there would be no reason for CAC stickers to even exist! Four clicks save 75.00 that a collector could use to get another coin for their collection!  Disclaimer: I am not knocking collector preferences. If someone LIKES the slab for what they are, and collects with an eye for the labels and plastic (with included coins). Go for it. Slabs do look sharp when lined up. Enjoy! I just like trying to make sure newbies get the idea of "buy the coin, not the slab." There is a lot of misplaced faith that is automatically awarded to these TPGs when newbies enter the hobby nowadays (and therefore become subjects to be TPG-leeched from). How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
One of the problems with comparing the spacing and positions of letters and other devices is that there are 22 varieties of 1799 Bust Dollars including the three 1799 over 8 varieties. Therefore one coin can differ from another because of the considerable hand work that went into the preparation of each die. @ jpbone and/or biljones: Please do educate me if I am wrong. Don't these different die attribution wizards for early dollars rtake all this into consideration? http://www.earlydollars.org/wizardhome.htmEdited by Earle42
05/12/2017 5:56 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1298 Posts |
Earle42, Great imaging pointing to problems. I agree, saving $75 to purchase other coins. Ham.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Thanks - and really, everyone is capable of this type of analysis. If we use our heads, the internet, common sense, and do a detailed analysis of design features such as I made points to above, its not hard. In fact I know there are many more points on that fake that could be seen. I just quickly chose a few. I randomly picked the stars to draw lines through.
Another way which takes a tiny bit of graphics program ability (really not hard- especially with youtube videos nowadays) is to paste a pic of a legit coin on top of the suspect one, adjust the transparency of the pasted one so the suspect can be seen through it, and compare.
|
| |
Replies: 33 / Views: 4,901 |
First Page
Posted 05/11/2017 4:04 pm
