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Advice On Selling Coins In Canada..ebay?

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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2018  8:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If someone bought my coin and resold it on ebay using my old picture I wouldn't mind at all.

What's the big deal with this picture ownership thing?

Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2018  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Smallcentguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I mostly agree. If I took a picture and someone used it as crucial part of something they were selling (like a coin catalogue) it would be an issue. If a coin catalogue was made mostly from pirated pictures that would be a particular issue.

But this case is pretty benign. The seller owns the coin. He could replicate the photo. The fact he used an old picture should really be taken as a compliment to the photographer. The photographer has suffered no financial harm and the seller has not really made extra money from the photo. I would say that the photographer should not expect any royalty for its use regardless of what the laws say. That being said, it would have been better form to ask permission.

And just so no one takes this as a post from someone who has never published, I have written maybe 2000 published items in my previous professional life....plus I edited another 5000 (yup that's like 15 a day for 15 years). Then (and now) most of us were figuring out how to get our stuff republished!
Edited by Smallcentguy
03/25/2018 9:10 pm
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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2018  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I disagree. It's lazy. As a photographer and writer, I don't like my work being stolen. That being said, if someone asked to use it, I likely wouldn't have a problem (I get asked fairly regularly, including publications like Coin World and Whitman). That's about all I have to say about my legally-supported position.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2018  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Smallcentguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
People in the coin collecting hobby need to take themselves a lot less seriously!



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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2018  9:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, what a great comment.
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Canada
1984 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2018  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Smallcentguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am happy to share my knowledge and ideas with anyone. If they profit or succeed as a result I am happy for their success.

Let's look at the example of....I would say...the world's most jealous defender of copyright. Disney. Is the world better off because Disney jealously defends their images and copyrights? No. Does anyone think the better of them for it? No. People fear the repercussions of crossing paths with them. But that does not make people like them, respect them of think of them as thought leaders. They are thugs.

I do not fear that I will run out of relevant ideas to share.

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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2018  10:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, and it bugs me to no end when the RCM gets upset about people smuggling gold bars in their butts. Seriously, why can't they just share?
Valued Member
Canadian coins's Avatar
Canada
142 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2018  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Canadian coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It was not my intention to start an ownership debate.I'm new to selling coins or anything else online and I was wondering whether it's common practice, acceptable, frowned upon. I did say it wasn't a big deal as I don't own the coin anymore. What if I had posed my question from the other perspective? I am selling a coin that I recently bought off of ebay, is it frowned upon to use the photographs from the listing that I bought the coin from? Even from that perspective the responses would have been the same. And all of the replies have been helpful. No doubt there is alot of knowledge here at CCF. Thank you. I know now that legally it's not right but it isn't enforced. That it is accepted by some sellers and unacceptable to others. I appreciate the different opinions.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2018  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
He could replicate the photo.


Then they can put in the time, effort, and expense to do so.

If you ask most people say okay, when you assume that's when you get on their bad side and rightfully so. You bought a coin, not all associated marketing material as well
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2018  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When I buy a coin on ebay and I receive the package from the seller and the postage stamp is not cancelled, I will reuse the stamp.

But maybe I should send the stamp back to him, since it's his stamp in the first place or perhaps I should keep the stamp but ask his permission for the privelege of using his stamp.

What should I do?
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Canadian coins's Avatar
Canada
142 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2018  4:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Canadian coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reward for your painstakingly removing the stamp, without damaging it, is the cost of the stamp. The reward for my time and effort taking effective marketing photographs is profit. The reward for right clicking, save image is profit? See the disconnect? Effort equals reward. Now this was harmless and without malice but would I feel the same if a large company was to right click and use my images to profit? No I would not. Profiting from the hard work of someone else, without acknowledgement, is not only illegal but morally irresponsible.
P.S I am only a novice photographer but saying that my photos could "easily be replicated", slightly offends me.
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5394 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2018  7:08 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually once a stamp is used , cancelled or not , it becomes the property of the recipient, as it is affixed to a package or personal correspondence. It is for a one timed paid amount and cannot be reused.
It is against Canadian Federal Law to "wash" or to reuse postage stamps . The RCMP busted a Montreal group a few years back for doing this.
US Law is also very specific on this topic as well . Described in Title 18 US Code. Sec. 471 Sec. 1720.
As to someone using a photo that was first in one of my listings , if they asked , absolutely I would be delighted to let them use it .
If they do not ask and then reuse it , umm not kosher at all!
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10456 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2018  8:10 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I concur with Pacificoin. It is unlawful to reuse postage stamps. Doesn't Canada Post use mostly UV-readable postmarks nowadays with their automatic sorters?

Do not buy lots of used stamps (typically sold as "no gum") - go to a stamp dealer and you can usually get unused postage (full gum or sticker) for about 65% of face.

As for the discussion of photographs. If you don't want to share your images, then use a strong watermark to protect your copyright. That said, when you put a photo on your ebay list, read the fine print - any ebay affiliate can legally use it. You authorize it via your ebay User Agreement just by uploading it to ebay.


Quote:
"When providing content using the Services (directly or indirectly), you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, fully sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any and all Intellectual Property Rights (as defined above) you have in that content in connection with our provision, expansion, and promotion of the Services, in any media known now or developed in the future. To the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, you waive your right to enforce against ebay, our assignees, our sublicensees, and their assignees your Intellectual Property Rights in that content in connection with our, those assignees', and those sublicensees' use of that content."

"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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vonigohcr's Avatar
Canada
665 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2018  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vonigohcr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I fear we have strayed quite far from the OP's original question however, as I understand the law, if you take a photograph of an object, then you hold the copyright for that image. You can, if you choose, enforce that copyright by asking some one using the image without permission to stop their use of the image or grant them an explicit right to use. Essentially, this is what the RCM has done if you read the sticky at the top of the NCLT page, they are enforcing their rights to the images of their coins that they produce. Of course, you own the copyright for the images that you produce.

As a copyright holder, you can hold an image for your exclusive use, or you can allow others to use the image with permission for a royalty or for free, or you can choose not to enforce your copyright. If you choose not to enforce your copyright on a given image, then you can lose the right to enforce it in the future.

The effort & investment required to make the photograph doesn't matter; whether you take a 5-second snap with a camera phone in daylight or the image is the product of thousands of dollars of gear with meticulous lighting, setup and re-shoots... the copyright is the same.

It is also why you will often see a "perpetual right to use" release as part of the entry to photo contests and the terms & conditions on Facebook etc. You will still own the copyright but you grant the photo contest or Facebook the right to use the photo... usually for whatever purpose they want and without further royalty or compensation.

@smallcentguy

I dispute your characterization of Disney. They have invested millions of dollars in the images and movies that they produce and they have the right to profit from that investment, much as other companies have the right to profit from their products.

If you want to talk about copyright thugs, you need look no further than the IOC who have the most predatory copyright and trademark legal team on the planet.
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Canadian coins's Avatar
Canada
142 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2018  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Canadian coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My previous post in this topic the answers were informative and I understand that different experiences will form differing opinions. I am shipping a coin to the U.S and would like to know how customs and duties are calculated for the buyer? Do I claim the amount I sold the coin for or the inflated catalogue value? I'm trying to be mindful of the duties paid by the buyer, whilst staying within the legal requirements. I do not want the package to get held up due to numismatic value versus sale value if that even happens? Would customs deem value based on the weight of the precious metal content? Or do they have a copy of Charleton that they cross reference? I have searched the internet and the plentiful information here on CCF forums and have not come across anything specific. While there is lots of information on not making it a gift and not putting in a lower value that what it sold for but nothing on how to calculate the value of a numismatic item, which is the item description that I have presently been claiming on customs forms. I haven't shipped a coin that sold for over the $200 threshold. I know that some advice will be in favor of buyers and some will favor sellers, I'm open to all opinions and information. Is there a keep everyone happy legal way to ship a higher valued coin from Canada to the US? Thanks again.
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