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1923 Threepence. Does It Make The Grade?

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Valued Member
CoinOS's Avatar
269 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2018  9:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
if it's at all possible to grade a coin from just a photo?


The good auction sites use dedicated setups with the right lens / lighting etc which helps.
Others on here know a lot about that. To your Q: Probably not.

Big money coins seldom go just on a photo, they have live floor bidders who've inspected the coin, and seriously big money coins - the seller will often fly the coin across the country to you and knock on your door to try and make the sale..

For me the coin brainwork is basically:
$1-50 - yeah whatever click buy .. uh oh what have I done?
$50-250 - think about that, send seller questions, look at his pics on big screen and use photoshop filter to see as much as possible.
$250-1000 - ask on forums, be very careful : sometime win, sometimes lose
$1000 up - I usually can't afford it, but have a handful.
$10,000 up - Maybe when I win powerball


Scans are popular too, but the results look a bit weird, okay for cheap stuff.


Quote:
able to give you an indication of what they thought the grading would be?


That threepence (doubts aside for now) is AU58-MS62

In MS grades, sought after coins can double in value for each step of the MS ladder, which might explain why many coin owners resubmit the same coin several times. PCGS and NGC often see the same coin come back ..

An auction is only good for the seller if there's a fight - which means two people who have money and really want the auction lot.
Some coins have never achieved a certain grade as with this thing - no MS65 1923 threepences exist and getting one would be nice (and unique).

The coin here has no chance at all at high MS, it's not a particularly good strike. I liked it because unc 23's are hard to find.

It's easy to get a MS grade on a modern coin or a coin with an enormous mintage, but key Australian predecimal dates are often nightmarishly hard to find in these grades.

Cheers
Pillar of the Community
stevo1962's Avatar
Australia
908 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2018  03:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevo1962 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would have thought if he got an offer on a fake the seller would have accepted
it by now
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1364 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2018  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks CoinOS, your assistance is much appreciated.

I still don't know who is right or wrong but at this point but it doesn't really matter to me as I feel that I have learnt alot so far.

I do hope though that you buy this coin and have it graded as I feel that this is still needed to give closure on this matter.
Formerly nancyc
Nevol's Avatar
Australia
5385 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2018  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nevol to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TPG's have been known to slab Counterfeits, so I wouldn't necessarily take a slab as being conclusive as to a coin's authenticity. Sorry if I seem a bit negative.
life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved
Valued Member
CoinOS's Avatar
269 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2018  03:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
TPG's have been known to slab Counterfeits


Yes they have.

I read that a fake Australian 1923 halfpenny was certified and slabbed by a TPG.

I'm really curious to see a photo of that one but can't find it.
Valued Member
CoinOS's Avatar
269 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2018  05:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is yet another 1923 threepence that has not appeared here before: [partial image - seller has watermarked the photo at rhs]

1923-Threepence.-Does-It-Make-The-Grade?

The seller has been an ANDA member forever and has a good reputation here and abroad.
The coin is not an investment grade and is currently for sale for approximately a hundred.

Again the rim characteristic is there...

Coin is ok
Edited by CoinOS
03/03/2018 08:44 am
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1364 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2018  06:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
TPG's have been known to slab Counterfeits, so I wouldn't necessarily take a slab as being conclusive as to a coin's authenticity. Sorry if I seem a bit negative.


Now that's a real worry!


Quote:
read that a fake Australian 1923 halfpenny was certified and slabbed by a TPG.


... double worry if this is really occurring!
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Basil's Avatar
Australia
1040 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2018  06:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Basil to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I read that a fake Australian 1923 halfpenny was certified and slabbed by a TPG.

I'm really curious to see a photo of that one but can't find it.


There is a Thread about it on this Forum,Pic.(or link) is in the Thread.I"ll try and find it when time allows.
Valued Member
CoinOS's Avatar
269 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2018  06:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There is a Thread about it on this Forum,Pic.(or link) is in the Thread


I can't get the link to work, no photo.


Valued Member
CoinOS's Avatar
269 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2018  06:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
... double worry if this is really occurring!


The graders at NGC and PCGS are pretty good, but they are not perfect.



Edited by CoinOS
03/03/2018 08:46 am
Pillar of the Community
Basil's Avatar
Australia
1040 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2018  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Basil to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

I can't get the link to work, no photo.


Yeah,found Thread,there is a Photo of it kicking around on the Net. somewhere,didn't show in a quick Google,perhaps it may be on the Oz. Coin Forum,i'll have another search this afternoon.

http://goccf.com/t/137966


Edited by Basil
03/03/2018 5:50 pm
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1364 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2018  08:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

The graders at NGC and PCGS are pretty good, but they are not perfect.

With the ever improving sophisticated, counterfeiting techniques who, or how, can we rely on what is real and what is not if not by these paid experts?
Edited by coaster
03/04/2018 08:07 am
Valued Member
CoinOS's Avatar
269 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2018  08:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
With the ever improving sophisticated, counterfeiting techniques who, or how, can we rely on what is real and what is not if not by these paid experts?


They get it right almost every time.

Edited by CoinOS
03/04/2018 10:38 pm
Valued Member
CoinOS's Avatar
269 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2018  01:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinOS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
-echidna

Quote:
The key to identification is the rims.
Look for the extra high rim on the very outside.


-paxbrit

Quote:
You can clearly see two rims on the fake coin, the rim that appears genuine, and outward, a thin 'rim' or sprue that surrounds the other.


That is no more than a high wire rim, here are confirmed genuine examples of this on a sixpence and an American coin.

1923-Threepence.-Does-It-Make-The-Grade?
1923-Threepence.-Does-It-Make-The-Grade?

The Wire Rim variety features a very thin and raised rim at the very outer rim of the coin - whereas the Flat Rim variety does not have this thin raised wire rim.
In order for a coin to qualify as "Wire Rim" - the raised wire rim needs to be present through the entire circumference of the coin. The difference between the Wire Rim vs Flat Rim is depicted in the above image.

This is common on early strike threepences and sixpences and is not a reliable indicator of a forgery.

#

Edited by CoinOS
03/19/2018 01:29 am
Pillar of the Community
wwwww's Avatar
Australia
541 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2018  05:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wwwww to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@CoinOS

It was an NGC holder at Heritage. We pointed it out to HA, they withdrew it and sent the coin to NGC.

Try asking the Australian-threepence blog for details, they were aware of it too.
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