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 Replies: 27 / Views: 6,924 |
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
I was on ebay today looking at what is on offer in early Australian shillings and I spotted this: 222668670459  The seller is prominent and has published in Australasian Coin & Banknote Magazine. Okay so we have a person of repute & standing - checkbox ticked. Let's look at the seller feedback: Over 1500 perfect 100% - checkbox ticked ..looking good  Now I'll give this coin a look: Here is what I see: [reverse] Kangaroo has significant wear esp. at shoulder Kangaroo rear leg is detached and almost gone.. Emu has far too much wear evident for the grade Grass has no detail and is almost vacant. The shield has 'cuds?' or other artifacts visible. Coin has a bizarre appearance as if it's been veneered. Coin surface is covered in small pocks and bubbles. [obverse] Lack of detail on Kings's coat and Bertram Mackennal's initials are illegible. Lack of strike detail on mustache and ear. The cross pattee at top exhibits unilateral heavy wear. The fleur-de-lis on both sides are poorly formed. There is my 3-minute budget quicky eval. The asking price for this coin currently on ebay is $3,500 The real value as of March 2018 for a genuine AU55 1915 Birmingham shilling is approximately a thousand plus change if it's exceptional, and about 650-850 for most in that AU53-55 range. I'm thinking maybe it's a pass, but I would be grateful for other's opinions. Cheers Edited by CoinOS
03/17/2018 11:03 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1039 Posts |
I'm certain its a pass'but just my opinion,the 's'in Shilling doesn't look right and the Star also looks wonky. What is it with the Patina on these Coins,once upon a time reputable dealers and keen collectors wouldn't touch them but ebay has sure fixed that.  Edited by Basil
03/17/2018 07:51 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1364 Posts |
Quote:
I'm thinking maybe it's a pass, but I would be grateful for other's opinions. @ CoinOs Quote:
I'm certain its a pass'but just my opinion,the 's'in Shilling doesn't look right and the Star also looks wonky. @ Basil I'm beginninging to wonder whether I just forget about collecting Australian pre-decimal coins altogether as it appears to be a losing battle! If I've read this correctly CoinOS you're saying that the listing is actually genuine but it doesn't meet the grade of AU55 that was given by PCGS whereas Basil you're certain that it is fake? |
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Valued Member
Australia
222 Posts |
The 1915H shillings are bad fakes. I won't describe in detail how this can be identified, so as not to educate the counterfeiters. But I will say that they look wrong and are both fakes.
Eric Eigner
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Valued Member
 269 Posts |
Quote:
you're saying that the listing is actually genuine but it doesn't meet the grade of AU55 that was given by PCGS whereas Basil you're certain that it is fake? Hi. My photos are of a current ebay auction - nothing to do with Basil's photos in the other post. The link to redirect to ebay is there. That coin is not graded, and I supplied an opinion and asked for other opinions. Quote:
I won't describe in detail how this can be identified It's no secret. Edited by CoinOS
03/17/2018 11:18 am
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
Quote:What is it with the Patina on these Coins,once upon a time reputable dealers and keen collectors wouldn't touch them but ebay has sure fixed that. They appear to have a uniformly thick layer of silver sulfide - artificially introduced. Here is what we want to see with 1915H shillings: [the real thing - all genuine]  Left to right AU53 MS61 MS65 The AU53 last sold 9 years ago AUD $760 [usd575] The MS61 last sold 7 years ago for AUD $11,200 [usd8625] The MS65 $$$$$$$$$$$ (upcoming auction) This coin is extremely rare in high grades and you just don't see many of them. The difference in value between one grade: AU55 and AU58, can be thousands of dollars. That AU53 looks nice doesn't it?, and it is a thousand dollar or more coin, but the others are better and the signs are far from obvious. Many would instantly say they see wear on the AU53 Kangaroo thigh - and they would be wrong. Many would prefer the MS61 and say the mini-shields inside the shield are better defined than even the benchmark MS65, and they would be right - but the 65 is better. Grading MS quality coins is complex and takes a few things into account. Grading these is a masterclass and very few dealers can do it. That's pretty evident - just look at ebay. Regarding the ebay coin at the top, I wanted to see what forum members think of it and what grade (if any) they would give it. I summarized what I think and am curious what others think. Quote:
I'm beginninging to wonder whether I just forget about collecting Australian pre-decimal coins altogether I believe collectors should obey a few simple rules: Do not trust coin dealers - harsh but true. Start with the key dates - spend the money, but ask people you trust for advice and spend it well. Edited by CoinOS
03/17/2018 12:00 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1364 Posts |
Quote:Hi. My photos are of a current ebay auction - nothing to do with Basil's photos in the other post. The link to redirect to ebay is there. That coin is not graded, and I supplied an opinion and asked for other opinions. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but the aBay listing you gave states that ... 'it comes with PCGS grading certificate AU55.'That is why I previously asked 'If I've read this correctly CoinOS you're saying that the listing is actually genuine but it doesn't meet the grade of AU55 that was given by PCGS?' |
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but the aBay listing you gave states that ... 'it comes with PCGS grading certificate AU55.' The seller is reading this forum. When a graded coin is removed from a slab, it is no longer a graded coin. The very second it leaves that slab - the grade is void and meaningless. This 'It comes with PCGS grading certificate AU55' is verbal diarrhoea and I have no time for such crap. Edited by CoinOS
03/17/2018 8:39 pm
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
Edited by CoinOS
03/17/2018 8:38 pm
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Forum Dad
 United States
24147 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1364 Posts |
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When a graded coin is removed from a slab, it is no longer a graded coin. The very second it leaves that slab - the grade is void and meaningless.
This 'It comes with PCGS grading certificate AU55' is verbal diarrhoea and I have no time for such crap. Thanks for clearing that up for me CoinOS as I missed the part in the listing that read '... all images have been taken with coin inside 2 x 2 holder' and looking at the pictures I can see the staples! What I don't understand now is why would you remove a coin from a slab after grading, especially one this is known to be favoured by counterfeiters? |
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Moderator
United States
15381 Posts |
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What I don't understand now is why would you remove a coin from a slab after grading, especially one this is known to be favoured by counterfeiters? Try this ... Because it wasn't ... and the listing is simply a way to fool the uneducated. Thanks to Bobby and the CCF for stopping this one. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1364 Posts |
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What I don't understand now is why would you remove a coin from a slab after grading, especially one this is known to be favoured by counterfeiters Quote:
Try this ... Because it wasn't ... and the listing is simply a way to fool the uneducated.
As the seller states in his listing that 'It comes with PCGS grading certificate AU55' then isn't the number on the certificate enough to give it that accreditation? I see on the PCGS website that you can verify the authenticity of your PCGS graded coin by entering your 7 or 8 digit certificate number. https://www.PCGS.com/ |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1333 Posts |
@nickelsearcher hi, I am new to collecting, but ill still take a stab at this picture from what I can see there are a few things that seem off about the coin even when not using catches or small marks (as this often is a way to spot large volumed counterfeits), you can compare with high graded specimens. Another thing is if you were going to sell it as is, then why not first get it graded or have a high res photo? As for the grade ill agree with the grade may be a slightly higher grade on tails mu57 but the obverser side is bad thou looks 40, even with this grainy a photo. thats my 2 cents worth
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
541 Posts |
Edited by wwwww
03/18/2018 09:18 am
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
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he could drop the last three digits form the price and I still wouldn't buy it  Edited by CoinOS
03/18/2018 11:27 am
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Replies: 27 / Views: 6,924 |
Posted 03/17/2018 08:29 am
