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Moderator
 United States
188770 Posts |
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But it will be weird having so many dollar coins flooding everyday commerce with OLD dated coins! No stranger than the old quarters, nickels, and dimes I see every day.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
656 Posts |
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No stranger than the old quarters, nickels, and dimes I see every day. This is true. At least 50% of the quarters I see are still eagle reverse. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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So, you notice that in this system, the coin manages the €1 and €2 responsibilities. However, there is not only a 1c coin, but a 2c coin as well that would be a superfluous addition as compared to the USD system. but as to mintages of the one cent Two Cent euros tend to be low in some countries don't produce them at all. Quote:
#1: Foreign paper currency that was successfully replaced with coins in the 1980s had a (very short) life expectancy of ~18 months; our stuff always lasted longer, because their paper was paper, while our 'paper' money is actually a cotton-linen blend.
Most foreign paper currency was also a cotton linen blend, it wasn't "paper". Quote:
Cost Parity: Rounding the numbers for both clarity & sanity, the coin will cost ~5x as much to make and last ~5x as long, which is pretty much a wash.
Usually they use a 30 year lifespan estimate for the dollar coin, but we can see from the coins in everyday use, sent, the nickel, clad coinage, that the coins will actually last 60 years or more. Nicholson the 1940s and 50s still show up and pocket change in decent shape. Now I will admit that the copper composition of the dollar coin being softer probably won't last as long, but Lincoln Memorial cents back to 1959 are still in good shape when found in change. I think their 30 year lifespan estimate for the dollar coin is way too short. If so the cost comparison figures are wrong. |
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Moderator
United States
188770 Posts |
Quote:
Usually they use a 30 year lifespan estimate for the dollar coin, but we can see from the coins in everyday use, sent, the nickel, clad coinage, that the coins will actually last 60 years or more. Nicholson the 1940s and 50s still show up and pocket change in decent shape. Now I will admit that the copper composition of the dollar coin being softer probably won't last as long, but Lincoln Memorial cents back to 1959 are still in good shape when found in change. I think their 30 year lifespan estimate for the dollar coin is way too short. If so the cost comparison figures are wrong. I agree. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
772 Posts |
I am personally baised to the cent as an avid collector of them. But, I 100% understand the arguements and reasons for it going. If it was to be removed, I might be able to grit my teeth and get through it if we got some actual circulating half dollar and dollar coins(with dates on the OBVERSE).
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Moderator
United States
188770 Posts |
You would get through it if they offered NIFC cents and made them from 95% copper (party like it is 2009). I know I would. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
772 Posts |
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You would get through it if they offered NIFC cents and made them from 95% copper (party like it is 2009). Add high relief to that list and I am sold! |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
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I wonder what the mint will put in their place A whole lot more worthless fiat paper, what else! Quote:
I think the only way to have a successful dollar coin is to make one that looks like a real dollar coin: Big and hefty! (Hint: Ike, Morgan, Peace...)
Sadly this is true, but it would have to circulate or it would become just like any other contemporary albatross coin. (This covers the arguments for any specific presentation of "money") Perhaps if our coins would be backed by a tangible reserve asset as it used to be, but that will not happen in any of our lifetimes. Technology and "progress" has dictated that only us collectors will care about metal OR paper fiat tender in the very near future.   Edited by Crazyb0
03/20/2018 6:02 pm
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Moderator
United States
188770 Posts |
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Add high relief to that list and I am sold! Done! They do it for the Kennedy half dollars, so I see why not.  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
233 Posts |
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... I think their 30 year lifespan estimate for the dollar coin is way too short ... I agree that we see 50- & 60-year-old coins in circulation, but I am not sure that the number we see is more than a tiny portion of those originally minted. Cutting & pasting Wiki data into a spreadsheet ( errors mine) yields: 9,249,701,605 wheat pennies were produced 1950 through 1958 478,534,956,597 other pennies were produced 1959 through 2016 If all of the wheat pennies survived in circulation to this day, 2 out of every 100 pennies you see would be wheats from 1950-1958. I see one wheat every six months or so, which is way less than 2% of the pennies I see. The point, of course, is that the life expectancy of these pennies cannot be estimated from either the original production volumes or the fact that we occasionally see one in change today. Not to be a hopeless snowflake, but the I think that The Fed knows an awful lot about the life expectancy of circulating coinage, has no reason to lie, and pretty much agrees (about life expectancy) with the agencies (GAO, CBO, etc) with which they disagree about most everything else when it comes to dollar coins. I accept the Fed's 30-year life expectancy for dollar coins, and offer again that the coin will cost ~5x as much to make and last ~5x as long, which is pretty much a wash. Cheers, /s/ ikeyPikey |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3402 Posts |
IP: If an average bill lasts 18 months, then applying your ~5x would give us 90 months. Divide this by 12 months in a year and by your math (new fangled type) you get about a 7.5 year lifespan for coins. I find many quarters which circulate a lot from the 1960's and 1970's, so we are talking 40-50+ years of circulation. Get rid of the paper and bring on the coins. All those Presidential dollars should be sent out to the banks when they request $1 bills. Sorry for the BEP employees, find other work. KK |
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Rest in Peace
United States
233 Posts |
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... If an average bill lasts 18 months, then applying your ~5x would give us 90 months ... The Fed describes, in detail, how & why the life expectancy of a US dollar bill has risen to ~70 months, which I rounded to ~5 years for ease of exposition. https://www.federalreserve.gov/paym...20131211.pdf ... PDF ... Costs and Benefits of Replacing the $1 Federal Reserve Note with a $1 U.S. Coin The coin will cost ~5x as much to make and last ~5x as long, which is pretty much a wash. Cheers, /s/ ikeyPikey |
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Moderator
United States
188770 Posts |
I still think it is fuzzy math, stretching two ranges to their extremes to overlap in a common area. I am not buying it and you should not be selling it. That being said, I am done arguing about the circulating dollar. It is getting us nowhere and I wager we will be completely cashless before anything is ever done about it. Keep your filthy germ rags while I use my card or tap my phone. |
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New Member
United States
6 Posts |
ikeyPikey- Most wheat pennies are being held by collectors or are buried in parks playgrounds and other sites. People who metal detect pull them out of the ground every year. The difference between the old copper pennies and the zinc coated copper ones put out today is that the new ones corrode away under the soil after only a few years. I have some that are only about a third of their original diameter.We could easily round up or down costs as most stores already have a take a penny dish. As far as a new dollar coin goes. I would like to see something like a smaller version of the walker or Standing Liberty quarter design. Those were great looking coins. IMO Edited by RaZRdigger
03/21/2018 1:24 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2271 Posts |
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I still think it is fuzzy math, ... I just used the same phrase in the other thread. ;) The 30 year estimate is actually pretty close. We see the old quarters in change but we don't see that nearly 55% of these early issues are gone now. Even though the coins wear out quite evenly with each coin showing about the same amount of wear they get lost or destroyed through misadventure. In the early days quarters had a lot of value so the attrition was only about 3% but this is no longer true so the attrition is approaching 4%. The 30 year estimate is accurate for a dollar coin only so long as there's no inflation. When its value is inflated away to it representing one cent then the attrition on the worn out coins will soar. In other words they'd probably last as long as clad did. Call it 40 years or so. Of course they'll last forever as a government boondoggle lost in some warehouse if we never actually use them. We'll pay for storage forever if current trends persist. Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Posted 03/20/2018 10:38 am
