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How Far Back Can We Go? Fifth Edition! Ended At 1461 Waiting On 1460 C. E. (A. H. 864)

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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2019  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1615 -- Kingdom of Hungary, 1 denar:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Valued Member
Norway
375 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2019  10:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giljan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@tdziemia, nice 3 kreuzer you have.
Here is my 1615 3 kreuzer.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Russian Federation
5186 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2019  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I sincerely apologize for missing yesterday, but I think I should probably post my coin anyway.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864 How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Sigismund III, billon ternar, 1616. Krakow mint (I think).
Not in Numista (that I can tell); apparently not in Krause; supposedly not in Gumowski for this mint; Fortress Catalogue claims Kopicki 582.
More details in and around my original post.

The ternar (3 denars) is apparently a very rare denomination; IIRC, there is even some dispute as to whether any were made in Krakow at all (as opposed to Poznan).
I think mine is the subtype attributed to Krakow, though.


I do have a proper coin for today, incidentally...

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864 How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Sigismund III, city of Riga under Polish rule, solidus (schilling), 1615.
Numista 78799 (under "Duchy of Livonia"), KM# 5 (as listed on Numista - not sure of which country), this date Kopicki 8152 (according to Fortress Catalogue).

I apologize in advance for the utterly blurry 2013 reverse photo. Unfortunately, I don't think I ever got around to making better ones.
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7986 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2019  6:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Certainly there is conflicting information on the ternar.
I think I provided the information from Gumowski for the earlier post you reference. Under "Sigismund III Kronpragungen" (crown mints) Gumowski lists 1603 as the last date for ternars from Krakow, and adds "Die Ternare 1616-20 gehoren zu den Munzen der Stadt Posen" (the 1616-20 ternars are attributed to the city of Poznan).
So, for Posen (Poznan) city issues, Gumowski 1479 reads: "1616. mit 1 S 6 in Av. (obverse)- und drei Wappen in Rv. (three shields reverse) - Auch von 1617, 1618, und 1619" attributing your type to Poznan for 1616-1620.

But the WCN archive lists this type as minted in Krakow. There are no examples from 1616 in the archive, which makes me think this date must be rare. The 1619 is attributed as Kopicki 585 and the 1620 as Kopicki 586.
https://wcn.pl/archive/148857?q=polska+trzeciak+
This is consistent with 1616 being Kopicki 582 I think, but maybe someone with a copy of Kopicki can confirm (gee, I wonder who that might be )

To end, I'm keeping an eye out for a ternar, since it is a denomination I am missing, and because I just love the Polish word for the denomination which is completely unpronouncable to anglophones - trzeciak.
Edited by tdziemia
08/01/2019 8:18 pm
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t360's Avatar
United States
2703 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2019  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1615 King Louis XIII of France

Half franc, child bust and ruffles (demi-franc au buste enfantin et fraise)

Paris(A)
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Half franc, laureate bust and ruffled collar (buste laure au col fraise)

Rouen(B)
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Half franc, laureate large head and ruffled collar (à la grosse tête lauree au col fraise)

Saint-Lô(C)
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7986 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2019  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice to see these France royal issues again, and to see a divergence of style.
I commented on Louis XIV that the busts were very standardized between mints, but now we see less standardization. When we get to Poland in 1590s, we will also see this.
Edited by tdziemia
08/01/2019 8:21 pm
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34491 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2019  11:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More French stuff from me. Here is a Double Tournoi dated AD 1615:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2019  04:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OOOOH I like the latest coins!!

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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2019  04:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1 quattrino
Milan, under Spanish rule
Philip III of Spain (1578-1621)
1614
Legend:
PHILIPP III REX HI
Philips III king of Spain
MEDIOLANI DVX ET C
Duke of Milan etcetera
Reference: CNI 246/252
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2019  04:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sigismund Wasa (1587-1632)
King of Poland, Lithuania and Sweden
SOLIDUS.CIVI.RIGE.1614
SOLIDUS CIVITATIS RIGENSIS
city of Riga
SIGIS.III.D.G.REX.PO
SIGISMUND TERTIUS DEI GRATIA REX POLONIA
Sigismund III, by the grace of God, king of Poland
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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giedrius's Avatar
Lithuania
386 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2019  07:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giedrius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sigismund III. Lithuanian schilling 1614
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7986 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2019  07:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Poland 1614 3 polker (poltorak) Krakow mint. First year of issue of this type which we have seen so much over the last 2 weeks. I think the die was made by an apprentice diemaker who went on to a different profession. The legends (especially reverse) seem very poorly executed, unless this is the result of something else.
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Edited by tdziemia
08/02/2019 07:44 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1186 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2019  07:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EddieDiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1614 N-B Hungarian Denar under King Matthias II;Huszar 1142,Unger 871. Some of the copper leeched to the surface giving it a pale reddish hue.


How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2019  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1614 Jeton from Antwerp, Duchy of Brabant, Spanish Netherlands Dugniolle 3709

Obverse: portrait of the Archdukes ALBERTVS ET ISABELLA D G
Reverse: Snake biting its own tail IMPERIO ET OBSEQVIO

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2019  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1614 -- Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth,1 groschen:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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