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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,529 |
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CCF Advertiser
 United States
1303 Posts |
Friends; A great many of you buy ancients online. Recently the Supreme Court made a ruling which will affect so many of us in so many parts of our life as you will be paying sales tax to so many states you don't have representation from. I realize it is hard for states as consumers buy online and don't pay sales tax but taxation without representation? That certainly rings a civic bell in our American education system. As a dealer I am sure ebay will find a way to make this as easy as possible and at the end of the year tell me who to send the 49 checks to as the system will automatically collect sales tax and with a hundred grand in sales a year we are talking around 6 grand I'll be collecting. Certainly a windfall for various states as all big online retailers comply. But what about all your VCOINS dealers you folks like? How long before someone tests the waters in litigation and goes after each mom and pop coin dealer not regulated by a platform like ebay? So will VCOINS make it is rule there and hire some new tax consulting program to make sure we all comply? Below is a petition ebay is sending to all dealers to sign. You might consider signing one of these if they come your way from various other social media sites you are involved with. PS: Will I be collecting tax for the European Union next for my sales to Europe or pay taxes to the keep the Queen or eventual King of England in nice sheets? Have we really circled back to 1775 now? -->Dear President Trump, United States Congress and State Governors, We, the undersigned, call on the federal and state governments to take the following positions on new Internet taxes and support the millions of small businesses and consumers across the country: Keep the Internet as free from government taxation and regulation as possible. Protect entrepreneurs, small businesses and artisans from new taxes, audits or collection burdens because they can least afford the added costs. Continue to prohibit states and localities from applying and enforcing sales and use tax laws on small, remote local businesses who have no political or voting connection to the taxing state. Reject tax policies that raise prices on consumers who shop online with small businesses for artisan, craft, religious, vintage or other niche products because they should not be paying more taxes. Sincerely, [Your Signature]<-- *** Moved by Staff moved to a more appropriate forum. ***
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
The decision was specific to North Dakota vs. Quill.
It is a declaration of approval for that state alone, but sets the precedent for other states to follow.
Many states will need to change their use tax before taking advantage.
The suit declares tax collection for sales under $100,000 or 200 individual sales. That is ND law, not universal.
Only 45 states have sales tax. However, some, like Alaska don't have a state sales tax, but boroughs within Alaska do charge sales tax.
The likelihood that most sellers will need to comply with 10,000+ different taxes is an untenable spaghetti mess.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1120 Posts |
Unfortunately, like every major law passed or supreme court decision in the U.S., this will hurt small businesses and ordinary people. This, along with the end of net neutrality, will steal the concept of a free and open internet (that we all paid for).
I hope this doesn't discourage you from selling, we need more dealers like you.
Edited by travelcoin 06/23/2018 11:32 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7613 Posts |
The sales tax cat is out of the bag and he's not going back in. I've already had one online seller on Amazon try to charge me 8.25% sales tax on an unprocessed food item shipped to Texas. It took me 4 emails to get the tax removed.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
A good point. Many sales taxes reduce their range by exempting items like food, clothing, or other categories. So not only do you have all the different taxes, but some are not taxed, or even taxed differently (percentage wise). Also - some states may charge tax on the SHIPPING, just like ebay collects payment for shipping. But some jurisdictions don't. It is not only the huge number of separate places that charge sales taxes at varying percentages - but also what is and is not taxed.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7933 Posts |
From a consumer viewpoint, I used to go to a brick and mortar store to buy something and expected to pay a sales tax. If the store was in a different state than the one I lived, I wound up paying state sales tax in a state in which I wasn't represented. I also understand that my state depends on sales tax revenue to provide the services on which its citizens depend. So it seems perfectly logical that, as retail transactions move to the online realm, a way of states maintaining their tax revenues would emerge. From the point of view of a small business owner, I also understand that needing to provide tax remittances to 45 states will be burdensome. On the other hand, that business owner derives benefits from online access (reach, lower fixed costs,etc.) that are presumably translating to higher profit. Without ebay, I never would have been able to sell the small volumes of things that I sell there, or I would have had to sell them off in bulk to a buyer near me, and made far less money.
Edited by tdziemia 06/23/2018 12:40 pm
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Moderator
 United States
187446 Posts |
Quote: Many sales taxes reduce their range by exempting items like food, clothing, or other categories. Yup. My state (SC) does not tax coins.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: . This, along with the end of net neutrality, will steal the concept of a free and open internet (that we all paid for). The end of net neutrality did bring back the free and open internet. It was a hinderence to try and make it "fair". It was also very short lived and an example of great marketing to scare people. Everyone seems to either forget or be unaware of the fact that it didn't exist until very recently and was only around a couple years, the internet grew for decades without it and is better off without it
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote: The end of net neutrality did bring back the free and open internet. It was a hinderence to try and make it "fair". It was also very short lived and an example of great marketing to scare people. Everyone seems to either forget or be unaware of the fact that it didn't exist until very recently and was only around a couple years, the internet grew for decades without it and is better off without it The Internet grew as an egalitarian environment in which quality was the only prerequisite, the only example of favoritism. It grew because nobody got in the way. Now, getting in the way is enshrined by law. Favoritism is legal. You can make connecting easier for people who pay you money. This is "fair?" I don't think so. Not having to charge sales tax is an unfair advantage gained over those who happen to live in the same state as their customers. If the recent decision is a problem for you, you're an opponent of free trade. You can expect software to calculate sales tax to be on the market very soon. There's a ton of money to be made creating an "Easy Button" for those who now need to charge sales tax in hundreds of jurisdictions. It's not like the rules are unclearly delineated by every taxing jurisdiction; the only effort necessary is to collate all this information and write some simple code doing the math based on the Zip Code shipped to. It's a non-event. Some enterprising coders are gonna make some bank, people who pay sales tax every day at their local store are gonna factor the tax into their purchases. So?
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New Member
United States
24 Posts |
Going to be alot more than 50 jurisdictions (I've read even thousands!). States like NY can also tax by county/city. Going to be very difficult for mom and pop business's. Unfortunate ruling by SCOTUS to say the least.
Edited by Cheyenne 06/24/2018 6:12 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: . The Internet grew as an egalitarian environment in which quality was the only prerequisite, the only example of favoritism. It grew because nobody got in the way.
Now, getting in the way is enshrined by law. Favoritism is legal. You can make connecting easier for people who pay you money. This is "fair?" I don't think so. That's exactly how it should be. If you invest more into something and pay for better infrastructure you should have better access. It's the same concept the internet developed on for decades and still does in the rest of the world all we did was return to how it should be. Life isn't fair never has been never will be and it shouldn't be legislated to hold back development to make it "fair". As far as sales tax it was a non issue for why people were ordering online more than going to local stores. It's not because of a couple bucks, it's because of the ease. No business is going to return to local stores because of this ruling. People have been paying sales tax at Amazon and Walmart for a long time who own the market. They'll keep ordering online for convenience and to save time and because they know they'll find what they want and not have to worry about if it will be in stock. The only thing the ruling really does is put a burden on smaller busniness to figure out the thousands of different tax jurisdictions which also vary widely item to item on rates and whether or not it's taxed. Yes eventually software will be sold for it buts that's an extra cost and will probably have some mistakes at first. As of now it's a pretty non issue and really not enforceable. There's no incentive for a state that has no sales tax to subject its residents to extradition to other states over it or place that burden on them when they get nothing from angering their voters. To me the tax itself is a nonissue. I've said before if it's going to happen I would prefer some reasonable flat rate that's the same everywhere so we wouldn't have this absurd system of tens of thousands of tax categories based on locations and item. Even just basing it on the sellers location I would be fine with. The whole states that Someone's never even been too demanding money from someone who has no say in how they operate rubs me the wrong way though
Edited by basebal21 06/24/2018 6:29 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
In Illinois there are so many taxes on everything we are just used to them. Not sure but I think we have taxes on our taxes.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4587 Posts |
Not sure how many here have ever had a sales tax permit... In Texas, people may be required to file monthly, quarterly (most) or yearly. Sales tax includes local components and "Generally, local sales taxes are due based on the seller's place of business." For in-state sales, you already owe these based on the goods sold, your location https://mycpa.cpa.state.tx.us/atj/search), the price of the item(s) and possibly the date of sale (there are several sales tax holidays each year - one on water conservation supplies like mulch and one on back-to-school items under $100). If Texas were to legislate taxes on out of state buyers (like SD has done), the law would need to specify what location to use and how frequently to report. As a guide, in 2013, House Bill 78 eliminated taxes on "Sec. 151.336. CERTAIN COINS AND PRECIOUS METALS. [(a)] The sale of gold, silver, or numismatic coins or of platinum, gold, or silver bullion is exempted from the taxes imposed by this chapter" Sorry Palladium, you are out of luck in Texas. In Maine, you file monthly, quarterly (most) or yearly also. Bullion and precious metals are taxable. Again the legislature would need to pass a law to collect online taxes and specify the rate, reporting, etc. Of course, what is going to happen is Taas (Taxes As A Service). Platforms like ebay will - for a fee - prepare and eFile your various state returns and keep up with the laws.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
665 Posts |
There are two different themes in the thread above. The OP was talking about the application of sales tax based on the location of the purchaser. ebay manages this right now for international shipments. If you use the global shipping program and send out of country, then this service will calculate the correct tax and duty applicable to the shipment and make the appropriate remittance. As an individual vendor, you don't necessarily need to care about the tax unless you hit the taxation thresholds in your home state. It is a little different in Canada & Europe as GST/HST/VAT tends to be managed differently from a raw sales tax and needs to be managed by the vendor. The downside is that this service is very expensive and as a Canadian, I am reluctant to purchase from vendors who use the ebay global shipping program. If the Supreme Court decision is extended by precedent past ND, I expect that it will become mandatory to use the sanctioned shipping program unless you as a vendor can register for and submit tax for all of the potential 50 states into which you may sell. The second thread regarding Net Neutrality is different. The internet has developed to a point where it is a basic utility like gas, electricity or the phone. Imagine if AT&T partnered with United Airlines and the consequence was that anytime you called United you got through immediately but calling American Airlines you only connected 50% of the time and the line was full of static and almost unusable. That is what the loss of net neutrality means. It doesn't matter what traffic goes on the phone system as it is neutral... calling Dominos for Pizza, Ford vs. GM for a car service, or United Airlines vs. American Airlines to book a flight... the phone system shows no preference. In our current world where the utility provider (AT&T) merges with the content provider (Time Warner) you have the potential for preferential treatment for the end to end integrated service and content provider. This will stifle innovation and new suppliers. Amazon, Facebook, Netflix et al. would never have grown to the extent they have without Net Neutrality... and their successors... the ones that are being developed in a basement or garage somewhere today will never be able to usurp the current incumbents without government intervention... remember this is why the government split Standard Oil and AT&T in the past... too much of an end to end monopoly putting competition and a free market place in jeopardy. In terms closer to folks on this forum... Imagine if you get preferential treatment for ebay on Verizon... If you want to snipe and are on AT&T, it never happens but if you switch to Verizon, then sniping is easy. Doesn't make sense...
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote: Recently the Supreme Court made a ruling which will affect so many of us in so many parts of our life as you will be paying sales tax to so many states you don't have representation from. I realize it is hard for states as consumers buy online and don't pay sales tax but taxation without representation? That certainly rings a civic bell in our American education system. Of course you have representation. If you are a buyer you will be paying taxes that were decided upon by the representives from your state and/or other local taxing authorities. If you are a sell you are not paying the taxes passed by other states, you are collecting them from the buyer and remitting them to the other state/jurisdictions. You're in Kentucky, if you buy something from Ohio they won't be charging you Ohio sales taxes passed by their representatives, they will charge Kentucky sales taxes passed by your representatives and send that money to Kentucky. That's why it is going to be such a headache for sellers, they will have to keep on top of the rates for every state, county, and municipality in the country and all their exemptions and exclusions (and there will probably be frequent changes) Hopefully they will only have to remit to the states and the states will handle the distribution of the county and municipal taxes. It would really get annoying if every seller had to remit the taxes to each taxing authority themselves. And one thing I've learned from having a business that collected and remitted sales taxes, once you start, it is difficult to stop, even once your business closes down. Once our business closed it took another year to convince Indiana that we didn't owe them any more sales tax. Every month we would get another notice from them that we hadn't remitted and that based on our previous months sales (which was $0) we owed $5,000 in sales tax. (We never paid $5,000 a month when we WERE in business.)
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:. Amazon, Facebook, Netflix et al. would never have grown to the extent they have without Net Neutrality. This can't actually be serious. I was ready to let this go until this came about. That had absolutely nothing to d with their success. Amazon got their success form lightening fast "free" shipping for prime and having everything. Netflix made their own good shows and got good quality back. Facebook grew the most before it. It gets old hearing these scare tactics from people that don't understand business and business practices and trying to credit a short lived experiment with the credit for those companies success just wow
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,529 |