Opinion Wanted: Raw 1916-D Mercury Dime

Agree. A coin at this wear level should show a triangular center feature, not the wide open feature as on the ebay coin.

Great Southern has been around for awhile and years ago I contacted ebay about what was a clear case of bid shilling in support of GS auctions. That was when you could see the identities of all the losing bidders. A few bidders were always there to bid-up pricing, but never won an auction. I imagine they're still at work today as many of GS's coins sell well above slabbed retail. And that's for a cleaned and/or recolored coin at that.

To each his own.

My statement was meant to point out the word "should" implies a universal statement that is not a fact. Statements like this tend to program newbies in a way marketers love.

Grading companies have no magic pixie dust they sprinkle their graders with so they can discern fakes. And especially with places like this forum, a persopn can actually have fun looking into how to tell a fake from a real coin.

Don't get me wrong. If someone prefers to let someone else do the checking for them, that's a legitimate option for them. But saying that every 1916-D SHOULD be slabbed is a roundabout way of saying everyone but people who belong to a a coin grading service are not capable of learning/discerning/knowing. Many threads on this forum show just how fallible these services actually can be.

Do a google and find the pixie dust used by the companies who slab. This forum is a great place to start

No magic dust, but they know FAR FAR FAR more than 99.9 percent of posters anywhere and they are that good. People that try and act like they aren't trained professionals who are much better at spotting fakes overall should just be ignored.

It's very rare for fakes to get by them, and they catch far far far more than collectors and dealers do.




No they don't. Someone thinking they can grade better from a picture shows nothing. Anyone who thinks someones grading from a random picture should hold more weight well....

Possibly the most counterfeited coin on Earth. Today I wouldn't think of buying one raw. Although we all should remember that a TPG is made up of people and people make errors. I still remember some time back a dealer sent in a 16D for slabbing and it came back as a fake. He then sent it to a different TGS and it got graded and slabbed. Maybe not to often but people do make errors. And I always wonder just how accurate records of what dies were used over a hundred years ago were.

While I agree the people being paid to grade are more experienced than your average collectors - obviously - repetitive usage and capitalizing an opinion concerning the issue ("FAR, FAR, FAR") is only useful to those who willnot take the time to evaluate what is being said in light of factual data and not just emotional preferences.

Every advert for every product you ever read is designed to make people, who don't take the time to use legitimate reasoning instead of emotion, that the product they represent is FAR FAR, FAR superior.


The "99.9" cited is also a factually baseless number unless backed up with verifiable statistics.

I personally cannot say what the numbers are, or, being totally factual here, if "99.9" is the correct number or not. However, I confess from the context the number appears in - the repetitive use of "FAR" in a seeming attempt to make an opinion more convincing(?) - that "99.9" is a non-verifiable number being used to also make the opinion look like it is fact.

Please let me know if I am wrong and this is a verifiable number. Verifiable data is the only way to make informed, educated, and legitimate opinions.




Thanks you for helping me see my statement here was misleading. I did not give enough information for what I meant to say.

I SHOULD have kept my response in context of the thread.

Here is the correction to my previous post: The TPGs are VERY good at discerning fakes. Its one of the easier jobs for them to do since they can use weight, die markers, obvious signs of casting, etc. (all data which, BTW, is available to anyone using the internet). The TPGs have obviously handled more fakes than the average collector and hence can likely spot one more quickly.

My fallibility reference was meant to be directed at the overall reality of these services as a whole as opposed to how their marketing departments love to make collectors, especially newbies, think.

There are many threads on CCF showing their verifiable shortcomings. There are lengthy discussions with factual and referenced evidence being shared. Education is the key.

As to the pixie dust concept,I will paraphrase former PCGS president Ron Guth form the youtube video at:


"Grading can be learned..."

Mr. Guth makes this statement in context of saying there are people who think they never could be a grader b/c they fail at being able to tell what grades PCGS graders assigned to a series of 20 slabbed coins

In context he also says,"Grading can be learned if you spent enough time in the grading room grading 100s and thousands of coins, which is really what its all about, its experience."

Anyone familiar with the teaching profession will tell you a skill can be learned expertly from a multitude of sources, and that the more sources used, the better the value of the education.

The information to make educated decisions on legitimate coins is out there. If you prefer not to find the information and learn it for yourself, then simply put your faith in a TPG (decide which one - they are different) and have them do it for you.

The stress here again though is on the reality that saying it is a necessity for any coin to be slabbed helps mislead people right into the hands of the marketers.

Teaching having been my profession, I personally have faith in the individuals' ability to be educated to the level they desire. There is no pixie dust, so anyone can learn.

The listing states that GSC guarantees authenticity. Looking at their other listings, it appears that the coin being offered is the one shown in the listing, so there's ample opportunity to make a decision and return it if it ends up to be fake.

I own both raw and certified coins. The key dates and better coins are ALL certified. The raw coins are purchased from reputable dealers. That's how I roll. Earle42 always advocates for raw coins and stores them in his albums but that doesn't mean that's the best strategy for everyone. Right now the market is dictating that key dates are slabbed and that will only continue.

Absolutely correct in that its not the best strategy for everyone. Unfortunately though the marketers have been able to influence the hobby enough that we see newbies coming here with the mistaken mindset that slabbing is an absolute necessity and just a normal part of the hobby everyone indulges in and desires.

Along with the false mindset that slabbing is a necessity, they also get the false impression that TPGS are well nigh infallible. The very existence of the much stated and wise saying to buy the coin and not the slab shows how well the marketers have done their job at profiting from the hobby. There has to be a balance or people get taken.




Then we better go back and correct the myriad of posts made by people like Coop who continually show how to tell a fake by mint mark positions, etc. There are also techniques anyone can use such as making an overlay, side by side tracing of lines between devices etc. which are reliable for determining fakes. Many posts on CCF have shown this. Weight, specific gravity, measurements, die markers, and details of device positioning, etc. are available to everyone who wants it.

Its not some unattainable magic to be able to analyze something according to a set of standards. People who handle massive amounts of real coins, like graders, can generally spot a fake right away - which is also why TPGs rarely slab fakes. The more a person studies and examines fakes, the better they get at it. Education is the key. And here on CCF there are many times fakes have been exposed by us simple folks b/c of the resources we have available.




Like every other area of life, The concept of how much an "expert's opinion is desired is a function of each individual's personality. Some people get along great being able to rely upon their own experiences and research while others want to spend time in other areas so choose to pay someone for an opinion. This is why I have also continually stated in this forum that slabbing is an optional preference, not an absolute necessity. Which is why I again responded to the words "SHOULD be slabbed," in the post I initially responded to.

People need to be informed by looking at both sides of the issue and decide for themselves which path they want. Newbies reading threads and blindly accepting "SHOULD" in a statement of that context end up knowing only one side of the facts.

I also find it interesting that these companies were only able to make a foothold in the US which at that time had the most disposable income of any country in the world. Most other countries thought we were foolish for paying someone else to do something we could do for ourselves. I personally don't think these other countries are full of stupid people. The main difference I see is that our society has been much more market influenced to spend money on every new thing that comes along.



Reading the guarantee shows its not all that simple...good marketing parlance though. . Their own guarantee online reads:
"PCGS guarantees that all United States and World coins submitted to it shall be graded in accordance with the PCGS grading standards and under the procedures of PCGS. In addition;

All U.S. and World coins graded and encapsulated by PCGS are guaranteed genuine.
The grade of all U.S. and World coins graded and encapsulated by PCGS is guaranteed.
"
The guarantee means you will not get a fake, and PCGS guarantees they grade it according to how they say they will.

The next paragraph specifically says they will take care of it if a person thinks its been overgraded (yeah - how many times is that likely to happen?), and continue to say grades can be re-evaluated. In other words, the grade they assign is fluid.




Not even close. I have found too many problems with slabs I have received and mistakes (in other areas than fakes). There is a lot of discussion concerning TPG errors on this forum.

But realize slabbing is not the one grand unification theory of the coin hobby. When, and if the sad day comes where, "buy the coin, not the slab" is not heeded by anyone, them marketers dreams will have come true.

This is NOT to say if you like slabs you are being suckered - if you like slabs... go for it! Its a hobby. Use discernment. I have said many times that slabs really do make a nice looking collection. Its preference.