Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer 300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin Auctions








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Very High Hadrian Bid

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 1,803Next Topic  
Valued Member

Canada
167 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2018  07:46 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add AlRashid to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hey guys

I was looking at below coin in CNG and noticed unusually high bid. I am curious is this a rare coin?

https://cNGCoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=367763

Pillar of the Community
paxbrit's Avatar
United States
992 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2018  2:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paxbrit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a lovely example and someone wants it enough to pay for it.

$1400 is not rarity level in ancient coins.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2018  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The same coin sold for a more reasonable $420 in its 2010 appearance, though still high imho. The RIC rating is "common". There is often no explaining CNG hammer prices.
Edited by Kushanshah
09/18/2018 4:21 pm
Moderator
Learn More...
echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2018  4:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a nice looking coin, but not for that price. At least two bidders want which is driving up the bids.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1120 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2018  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add travelcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO it's someone bidding that has the money to overpay for a fine example and unwilling to be bothered to shop for a fair price.
Valued Member
Canada
167 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2018  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AlRashid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree the condition is good but you can get same condition coin for far less than 1300 USD. These types of bids on CNG sometimes makes me wonder if the consignor is doing some work to advertise his coins.(Not CNG but the person who consign the coin)
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2018  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some clues may be found in section III.1.1. https://cNGCoins.com/Terms+of+Use.aspx
Edited by Kushanshah
09/19/2018 9:00 pm
Bedrock of the Community
paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2018  10:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For $1300+ I'd rather be picking up something in gold, or a decent Owl or Julius Caesar. It's a lovely coin, but not at that price and not for me.

Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Valued Member
Canada
167 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2018  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AlRashid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Kushanshah WOW They clearly say that they let consignor to bid on his own coin. Don't you guys think its a bit unethical? Of course the consignor bids and increase the price unrealistically.

Bedrock of the Community
paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2018  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Quite a few well known auction houses (e.g. StacksBowers, Goldberg, Sotheby's) allow consignor bidding on self-consigned lots but it usually carries a hefty and somewhat punitive premium based on a separate fee schedule so as to make it financially undesirable to do so; or the consignor may be charged a fixed, non-refundable fee for every "own lot" bid. They often also require the auctioneer's agreement to such terms before the lot is called for sale, and the situation is disclosed to the floor bidders. This can be used as a (discouraged) way to "kill" an auction due to sellers' remorse (notwithstanding the hefty fees!) since it often discourages other bidders, at the cost of having to pay BP/SP and additional consigment fees just to win back an item you already own!!

This should not be confused with unethical shill bidding, which occurs when the auction participants / auction house are NOT aware that the consignor is self-bidding, or where the consignor has recruited / colluded with other individuals (unethical proxy bidders) to place bids on his or her behalf with the intent of driving the bid higher. The intent is usually to run an "underbid scam" where the shill bidder wins the item, then pretends to back out of the sale, and the item is conveniently offered to the underbidder for their (inflated) last bid.

Other auctions (Heritage, ebay) have strict policies against consignors bidding on their own lots to defend against shill bidding.

A third approach is sometimes seen in the fine art world and elsewhere: "preferred" customers "of sufficient means" who do big money business with an auction house on a regular basis may ask the house to place proxy bids on lots using the house line of credit, occasionally including their own consignments. This is not usually considered unethical if permitted by the auction house rules and is often used as a means of attracting publicity for both the auction house and the seller.

An example would be including, say, a Picasso valued at $3.5 million along with a consignment of some lesser works that would be interesting to art collectors or Picasso fans (sub $500k to $1.5m); the Picasso will inevitably be listed with either an undisclosed reserve well above its market value, say, $15 million, or, if needed, won by the house acting as a proxy bidder for the consignor. The idea is to bring more bidders to the floor and gain exposure for the other lots, where they will hopefully bid higher on those lots due to more competition and "excitement" -- the Picasso is basically an advertisement or a "lure."
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Valued Member
Canada
167 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2018  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AlRashid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Paralyse for clarification . I was mainly concerned with the second option (Non-Ethical) bidding where owner of coin ask a friend to bid on his behalf. So I guess auction house can not prevent or detect these cases. Because I can see sometimes lots go high on CNG unrealistically such as this hadrian coin.
Bedrock of the Community
paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2018  9:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is much harder to detect shill bidding online, unless the shill seller is dumb enough to keep going on long enough for a pattern to become apparent.

You look at things like "same IP address always bidding on same seller", "high number of bid retractions", etc.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Valued Member
Canada
167 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2018  09:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AlRashid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yea but I don't think we can see IP address of bidders in CNG I don't even think we can even find their identity or name etc let alone their IP address.

  Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 1,803Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.4 seconds to rattle this change. Forums