Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. 300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin Auctions








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

US Mint New Listing On Schedule For A 2019 Enhanced Reverse Proof American Silver Eagle

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 1,581 / Views: 148,648Next Topic
Page: of 106
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Please stop telling what half-truths, CAC is a THIRD party Grader. Just another sticker.


Just another sticker couldn't be further from the truth, TPGs are the third party.


Quote:
You would not last long face to face,


Resorting to emotional threats of physical violence is unbecoming. Hopefully the new year is better for you and you can let go of such anger and be more open to facts
Edited by basebal21
12/30/2019 10:26 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The entire topic lends itself to knowledge, Either you have it, and know it or you pay for another person's opinions...

I'd say this is a pretty spot on statement. It seems many people are willing to pay for the opinions of others rather than taking the time to learn for themselves. I really like learning about coins, including the grading process, as it really increases the enjoyment factor.
Pillar of the Community
Numis-Northerner's Avatar
Canada
857 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'd say this is a pretty spot on statement. It seems many people are willing to pay for the opinions of others rather than taking the time to learn for themselves. I really like learning about coins, including the grading process, as it really increases the enjoyment factor.




Not to say that there aren't a lot knowledgeable people who TPGS, but it does seem like there are people who would rather let someone else do the grading part as apposed to learning it themselves.

I do think some of this comes from the people who would rather tell new collectors that they should spend there money on grading fees as apposed to buying books that will help expand there own numismatic knowledge.
Pillar of the Community
Morgans Dad's Avatar
United States
5615 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Basebal21, Grow up. IF I was 12 I would maybe resort to Teaching you, I am not, I am NOT threatening you, Do you have a complex, Try Growing up..... The problems in the World Today, Division and attitudes... You seem bright, Statements like your last, Does Not.....Did you actually think I wanted to cause you harm?, I believe there are what I call Keyboard Tough Guy's in Our messed up society, And when You talk and discuss the topics at hand in person, The rational, reasonable answers, come out... That is all, No Threats.!! Did you check out the CAC video that clearly states who CAC are and what they, LIKE other TPG'S , do? May Your, Mis- interpetations of other's written words, Not get you into more problems......Instead of, Another half truth...... PS, The 19XE is still not as sold out yet!!! Also, Just because You do not agree with a person's statement, Does NOT mean, You are correct......... Seems others agree... May you find the path to playing nicer in the near coming New Year..........
Pillar of the Community
Morgans Dad's Avatar
United States
5615 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bret, Numis-Northerner, I also think,like you both ( nice to see ) there is Far too much empathise placed on Coin Collectors to send the coins away to get the " professional" opinions. They too, the graders, started in a research book somewhere, maybe also from a Coin Collecting Forum like this, Maybe both, IMO, More people in this and coming into this hobby should do the research and possess the skills, with the " help of other " Collector's assistance,if possible to gain the knowledge needed, to move forward with confidence in this Wonderful, Intriguing, Thrilling collecting hobby.....Waiting for the package to a coin bought, That You finally found, at a great price to come in the mail, WOW.......19XE, Anyone found to be able to order at 7 am lately ? The coin site says, currently not available, ( the U S Mint )
Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think one of the best pieces of advice I've received regarding coin collecting came unintentionally from a dealer at a show. He had all his coins out on the table in 2x2's, but there were no prices. I asked him how much he wanted for a particular coin and he gave me the price. I then asked him what he'd grade the coin. He responded that it doesn't matter, that's how much he wants for the coin. Now he was kind of a grumpy old fart, but that taught me right there at that moment that it was up to me to decide for myself what the grade was and if the coin was worth the price. I don't even remember if I bought the coin. Fast forward to when I bought my 1995-W proof ASE. It was in a NGC slab and graded PF-69. I couldn't find a flaw on it. I did look at quite a few PF-70's that were not perfect. The sellers wanted multiple time more for those. I bought that particular NGC PF-69 and don't care one bit that it's graded a 69. It's perfect as far as I can tell. It seems odd to me, but there are many collectors who would rather spend more money for a graded 70 that they can see is imperfect than a 69 that they can't find a flaw with.
Pillar of the Community
hfjacinto's Avatar
United States
7276 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It seems odd to me, but there are many collectors who would rather spend more money for a graded 70 that they can see is imperfect than a 69 that they can't find a flaw with.


Big reason for this is the registry sets, a graded 70 gets you more points so you can get a bigger score and have a "better" collection. I like my ungraded sets more. No need to show off, well a little
US-Mint-New-Listing-On-Schedule-For-A-2019-Enhanced-Reverse-Proof-American-Silver-Eagle
Pillar of the Community
Numis-Northerner's Avatar
Canada
857 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  2:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It seems odd to me, but there are many collectors who would rather spend more money for a graded 70 that they can see is imperfect than a 69 that they can't find a flaw with.


And that's one of my main problems with the amount of seemingly unquestioned influence the TPGS have. Don't get me wrong, people can and should spend there money on what they want (certain exceptions not withstanding), but I also feel people should be informed of what they're buying.

If someone thinks I'm spreading "misinformation" by saying it's better to learn to grade for yourself, that the TPGS aren't 100% consistent and that anything the TPGs learned can also be learned by collectors (Coin grading isn't wizardry or magic, it can be learned by anyone), then let them say I am.

I know people say that you should only buy TPG graded coins if you're a beginner, which is honestly not terrible advice, however most coins in TPG holders aren't the comment date Barber coins, and other inexpensive coins we start off collecting. They're usually coins in the, at the very least $100 range. My thoughts are, think about how many books with invaluable information can you get for even a third of that?

I think it is most beneficial for a collector to build at least a somewhat decent independence with grading before consider buying these high end coins because, if you put that $100 dollars into Books, half towards some commen "grading practice coins" and the other on a grading book and a price guide, not only would still likely have $10 remaining (which I would recommend using to buy some tasty, non-messy snacks to enjoy whist you put your new books to use, but you do what you want with your hypothetical $10 ).

And then you have physical access to the same information that many of the most knowledgeable collectors use, knowledge that you will likely use for the rest of your coin collecting life, and you literally spent less than $100 dollars for it, information that can help you make, save, or avoid losing in this coin collecting hobby.

Obviously the more you experience things like shows, clubs, hands on interactions you will learn more and more. It's likely that you'll never stop learning as you collect, but at least you'll be gaining independence, knowledge and experience a lot of collectors might not have, and maybe you can be the one who teaches and shares your knowledge with those collectors.


Pillar of the Community
hfjacinto's Avatar
United States
7276 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
And then you have physical access to the same information that many of the most knowledgeable collectors use, knowledge that you will likely use for the rest of your coin collecting life, and you literally spent less than $100 dollars for it, information that can help you make, save, or avoid losing in this coin collecting hobby.


You can even start off for free by using Photograde (an AP for your smart phone, actually the Coin Facts suite is pretty nice by PCGS), I use photograde all the time. Once you start looking at the difference in grades you can usually tell quickly. BUT not everything is the grade, I have VG coins that have more eye appeal than VF coins and I have MS coins that aren't very appealing. A grade just means that, based on a 70 point scale this coin scores X. It doesn't say anything about:
rarity
value
eye appeal
gotta have it factor
collectability
long term value
Upside/downside potential

Doesn't mean you shouldn't buy a coin because of its grade, I purchased a coin that was rated MS 66 because of its grade and price.
Edited by hfjacinto
12/30/2019 3:18 pm
Pillar of the Community
Foxwoods Man's Avatar
United States
4901 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you are collecting coins for a personal collection then there is no reason to grade coins....unless your collection is of graded coins.

If you are potentially going to sell some or all of your coins in the future graded coins have a defined value and could be easier to sell

Coins that are self graded have no more value than any others..a stated 70 grade is still a raw coin..learning to grade is VERY appropriate for non-modern issues and might save some cash from submitting lesser quality older issues for grading. Moderns....most 69's look like 70's....Morgan Dollars...a 65 grade is stellar
Pillar of the Community
Darth Morgan's Avatar
United States
2815 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Darth Morgan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The grade is in.....

PR70

Pillar of the Community
Morgans Dad's Avatar
United States
5615 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Darth Morgan, Congrats to You. That was a long, long wait!!
Pillar of the Community
Darth Morgan's Avatar
United States
2815 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2019  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Darth Morgan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Darth Morgan, Congrats to You. That was a long, long wait!!

Yes, indeed, but well worth the wait. Now I'm just waiting for the TrueView to show up as well as the cert # being placed in the system.
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2019  02:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I do think some of this comes from the people who would rather tell new collectors that they should spend there money on grading fees as apposed to buying books that will help expand there own numismatic knowledge.


It's more that some of us are very aware of all the snakes in the grass in this hobby and how good some doctoring methods are. We are at the point where often times there is a reason why an expensive coin is still raw and there are dealers out there removing details coins from holders that they know they can pass off as a straight grade to many collectors.

Using the TPGs in general IS a learning experience, one that many collectors would benefit from. The same thing goes with CAC for classic US coins.

As far as new collectors, the best thing they could do when making purchases is to stick to graded coins and CAC ones if they're going to start in the middle to the deep end. No matter how much someone reads or studies at some point you have to learn by actually doing it. Everyone just says oh thats the tuition to start out with while you learn when people get taken advantage of while they learn better, well the TPGs and especially CAC coins will minimize that or eliminate it for many people.

For whatever reason the anti-TPG or the I don't need anyone elses help crowd that turns it into a combative issue and act like you can only do one or the other. People don't know what they don't know until they find out the hard way. How telling people how to best protect themselves turned into people trying to make it out like we're saying to be stupid is beyond me.

Many dealers hate the TPGs and CAC because it makes their life harder, they can't hype things as easily. Any dealer that's trying to say I don't need them I know more whose selling US coins of value walk away very quickly and save your wallet.

By the way the grading courses that people always recommend from the ANA people might want to think for a second where the instructors come from.


Quote:
I think it is most beneficial for a collector to build at least a somewhat decent independence with grading before consider buying these high end coins because, if you put that $100 dollars into Books, half towards some commen "grading practice coins" and the other on a grading book and a price guide, not only would still likely have $10 remaining (which I would recommend using to buy some tasty, non-messy snacks to enjoy whist you put your new books to use, but you do what you want with your hypothetical $10 ).


Getting books is great (I would avoid a few authors especially one who was known to make stuff up) but building a legit numismatic library is far far more expensive. Pretty much every numismatic book worth the paper it was written on will run you 20+ some significantly more as some authors refuse to modernize with digital versions. An attribution book in any series will probably eat up at least a 1/3rd of that budget if not more on it's own and that's just one series. Attribution is a good way to try and weed out fakes. Then you would need grading books as well, how to detect doctoring etc.

A real numismatic library to approach professional knowledge will be in the thousands and require countless hours. It's simply not practical for most people.

Point being there's no way you're getting even close to the knowledge necessary to do it all on your own for $100 or even 150 with money left over and getting books and coins or even just books.

The best thing new collectors can do is learn from the graded coins. If they really want to be trying to get the best eye possible stick to the CAC ones. As time goes on and they get experience they can expand outwards in what they will look at.

If a new collector goes out to do it on their own in raw US coins with any value they're gonna get taken advantage of and it may or may not turn them off from the hobby all together.


Quote:
Did you check out the CAC video that clearly states who CAC are and what they,


Do you honestly think I just say stuff to say stuff and need a youtube video to know what CAC is?

Dealer network isn't a part of CAC by the way.
Valued Member
United States
170 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2019  03:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pilotaggie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Perhaps that microscopic dark pin point near the rim between the second S in states and the O in of. That's all that I can see, but it's probably not visible to the naked eye.


Bret hit the nail on the head. When I pulled out a 4x magnifier I can see that little spot by the O in dollar as well as the S in states. The one by the O you can see with the naked eye if you are looking for it. It is slightly raised on the coin. The one by the S is pretty hard to see without some magnification and again if you don't know to look you would probably miss it.
  Previous TopicReplies: 1,581 / Views: 148,648Next Topic
Page: of 106

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.47 seconds to rattle this change. Forums