hfjacinto, You're NOT alone. The majority of My personal collection is in the original mint's packaging, Love the OGP'G. I have had graded 2 coins in my 50+ years of collecting, They were the 1889-CC Morgan silver dollar and the elusive 1970-S Small date Lincoln Cent. Why, I just thought, at the time, Why not see what the TPG'S were all about. That was long, long ago. While I have Hundreds of slabbed coins, I collect more then just a couple of Coin Series along with Plenty of more sets and currency too, having more currency graded, then not, ( not by me). Actually, Thinking about selling off almost the entire collection, since 1963, I hope to list much here for sale !!... The 2019 Enhanced Reverse Proof American Silver Eagle, In My Opinion, I believe THIS coin will not only be the Key, as far as the lowest mintage to date, also the fact that the signed COA'S brought this coin's release to another Height all together. I would still enjoy the knowledge of Exactly how many Obverse and Reverse Dies were actually used in the total mintage of this coins minting, Anyone?
Quote: Could You clearly see the reason for Not being a 70?. I can not.... A coin in hand, tells the whole story, vs a picture
Perhaps that microscopic dark pin point near the rim between the second S in states and the O in of. That's all that I can see, but it's probably not visible to the naked eye.
Quote: In an internet world, we need an independant way of evaluating a coin that we can not physically inspect prior to purchasing, the TPG provide that service.
Perhaps in some cases, but that doesn't apply to this coin. Everyone buys sight unseen from the mint and you get what you get. I view my opinion of a coin as more important than the opinions of others. The 3rd party grading opinion is mostly just a way to eliminate debate regarding condition when it comes time to buy or sell a coin. Of course they also authenticate, which is pretty much like insurance.
Quote: There is another company, that "double checks " the first grading company
That's not what CAC does
Quote: which might be owned by the same services too,
Neither PCGS nor NGC own CAC. CAC is independent though they are in no way adversarial to the original TPG.
Quote: HOW did people ever get along, without the "TPG'S "
Collectors were taken advantage of more back before they had the TPGs, unfortunately it was a lot of children and widows that found out.
Quote: So much for knowledge and critical thinking on one's own behalf.
It's not a this is that. Someone isn't a better collector for not having graded coins nor is someone less educated for having their coins graded. Some of the most knowledgeable collectors in any series use the TPG services and CAC as well.
Yes it is a pet peeve of mine when people take the position about knowledge. The TPGs are one of the greatest learning tools collectors have
I was very surprised at what several members mentioned was their cost to get their ERP graded. I paid $159.50 to get five coins graded and shipped back to me. That plus my cost to ship to the TPG brought my average cost per coin to almost $36. That is 2X the spot value of the 1 oz. of silver in each coin.
Was just because it was a single coin. The shipping was the biggest charge unless express grading was used. Generally you want 10 or more coins for a submission or at the very least 5, but this was a special case.
Quote: Maybe we can fill a few pages on the forum to discuss which Team you belong to, and why one is better than the other: Team PCGS or Team NGC.
PCGS leads the US market especially in more expensive coins. That said there's not really a reason why you have to be a one or the other only. If you only do US coins then it can make sense to stick to PCGS when collecting expensive coins (preferably CAC too), but if you do world coins as well the preference varies depending on the country.
Quote: I have not noticed any price difference in sales of the ERP on ebay between PCGS or NGC.
There's always exceptions, but the PCGS 70s have been pretty consistently selling for more than the NGC ones when compared to the comparable product like COA graded or not etc.
They're a 4th party grading service. They provide yet another opinion because apparently some people don't think that three opinions (buyer, seller and independent 3rd party service) are not enough.
Quote: Collectors were taken advantage of more back before they had the TPGs, unfortunately it was a lot of children and widows that found out.
And people are still being taken advantage of. Just now it's primarily the 3rd party grading services with their special labels such as First Strike which could literally be the last coin struck. Certifying that a particular numbered COA came with a coin takes the cake though. It's hard to believe that there's money being paid to them to verify the box was sealed when they received it. I can figure out that kind of stuff when I receive the box from the mint myself. Of course I'm one of those odd people who believes if you can't see a difference between two coins then they're the same. If I had to have one of every ASE the 3rd party grading services certified, I don't think my ASE collection would have ever been completed.
Quote: They're a 4th party grading service. They provide yet another opinion because apparently some people don't think that three opinions (buyer, seller and independent 3rd party service) are not enough.
The 4th party part is right, but that is it. They identify the better/premium coins for their grade. It doesn't mean the others are wrong, but every grading scale has tops and bottoms of a grade. It's a little more complicated than that, but that's the basic idea.
It could be brought up about how when dealing with expensive coins another expert opinion is just smart, how CAC is not for cheap coins, how much collectors could learn submitting to CAC who doesn't even charge collectors for coins that don't sticker etc but that won't change anyones mind who thinks it's some scam as all these things have been discussed ad nauseam.
Quote: And people are still being taken advantage of. Just now it's primarily the 3rd party grading services with their special labels such as First Strike which could literally be the last coin struck.
Yet the PCGS label literally says delivered within first 30 days on it. People know exactly what they are and like the special labels. If someone is being taken advantage of it is because of a seller not the TPG.
Quote: pilotaggie, That's one beautiful Coin.... Could You clearly see the reason for Not being a 70?. I can not.... A coin in hand, tells the whole story, vs a picture........
To the naked eye no. There are a couple places that I'll check out when the out of town family has gone. I'm not that good at spotting issues though.
As I said getting this grade and a basic COA makes it easy to keep this coin for myself. I'm still glad I sent it for grading but for most coins I will keep them original.
It was a fun ride for the last month and a half I wouldn't do it any different.
pilotaggie, Thank You....... As expected, another Their opinion statement.......... Those poor little kids and old men and women,Saved by the kind-hearted likes of D.Hall ET AL...... You can tell yourself what you wish, We as collectors, know the reality of the 3rd and 4th and soon 5th and 6th party graders, We all know, there is no limit to a service fee, handling fee, mailing fee, grading/Quality control fee's etc. OGP :), The fact that the CAC stickers on a coin is another 3rd party's way of agreeing with the first TPG, And they have different colored stickers too. IF the CAC does not agree with the first TPG 's grade, CAC places a gold sticker on the First TPG's slab, meaning they do NOT agree with the Original TPG's grade and that sticker could mean the grade, in CAC's opinion, could be even a grade or TWO greater then the person who spent $$$$ with the first TPG and thus, "adding value to the same coin.!!! In other words, the TPG's job, of grading coins, is NOT any guarantee of that grade, WHY, because there are other companies ( $ ) that will and do, NOT agree with the other TPG's....... Sell slabs and make more $$$$.... That's the same as the label stating first strike, It was NOT the first coin struck, yet they imply , with their labels, and people clearly ran with the notion being true, knowing the label is a misrepresentation of the truth and facts.... NOONE knows when a coin was struck. NOONE knows if a coin was an Early released coin, They ALL simply are released at the same time. For those that were lax, they Grader's simply came up with the term, received within 30 days of release, What a crock, They were ALL released about the same times...... . The entire topic lends itself to knowledge, Either you have it, and know it or you pay for another person's opinions....... The U S Mint's site still has not placed the dreaded SOLDOUT red x up yet, for the 19XE.!
Quote: The 4th party part is right, but that is it. They identify the better/premium coins for their grade. It doesn't mean the others are wrong, but every grading scale has tops and bottoms of a grade. It's a little more complicated than that, but that's the basic idea.
It could be brought up about how when dealing with expensive coins another expert opinion is just smart, how CAC is not for cheap coins, how much collectors could learn submitting to CAC who doesn't even charge collectors for coins that don't sticker etc
I don't think that we're disagreeing at all. I do find it somewhat of a conflict of interest that CAC only gets paid when they sticker a coin.
Quote: Yet the PCGS label literally says delivered within first 30 days on it. People know exactly what they are and like the special labels. If someone is being taken advantage of it is because of a seller not the TPG.
I'd say that some willful ignorance is involved too. Sometimes people know, but they just don't care. The issue that I have with labels such as First Strike is that the implication is that the quality of the strike is better for the first coins delivered. Of course generally the quality of the first coins minted using a particular die set is better, but the delivery by the mint within the first 30 days means pretty much nothing in that regard. Take this ASE. All of them were delivered within the first thirty days. Furthermore, the last coin shipped could literally be the first one minted. In order for a special label such as this to have value, I think that the 3rd party grading service should have a way to actually look at the coin to determine if the strike quality is above par. They do this with Mercury dimes and Jefferson nickels. There's no real way to do this with ASE's because the quality of the strikes are all so good.
Bret, I am NOT alone !! People collect and rationally research the facts. Some people feel the collecting world can NOT get along with-out the TPG's. I am of the opinion that, This release of the 19XE is a perfect example of people being caught up in labels and stickers that, IMO are there to make up, and cash in on people who just will knowingly and blindly spend their $$ on the opinions of others, at any costs......America is a Wonderful Capitalistic Country, Enjoy!! PS, Only buy the best, First Strike, Early Released, First Day of Issue, Gold CAC stickered PCGS Slabbed coins.......Buy a book and read about the hobby We all are involved in, You Just might learn things that You never knew.....Just My Opinions.....
Quote: I do find it somewhat of a conflict of interest that CAC only gets paid when they sticker a coin.
That's only for collectors, dealers pay for everything they send. It's just as an added service for collectors, they don't really make their money stickering coins anyways.
Quote: I'd say that some willful ignorance is involved too. Sometimes people know, but they just don't care. The issue that I have with labels such as First Strike is that the implication is that the quality of the strike is better for the first coins delivered. Of course generally the quality of the first coins minted using a particular die set is better, but the delivery by the mint within the first 30 days means pretty much nothing in that regard. Take this ASE. All of them were delivered within the first thirty days. Furthermore, the last coin shipped could literally be the first one minted. In order for a special label such as this to have value, I think that the 3rd party grading service should have a way to actually look at the coin to determine if the strike quality is above par. They do this with Mercury dimes and Jefferson nickels. There's no real way to do this with ASE's because the quality of the strikes are all so good.
It's basically just a numismatic play on words. When it really is a literal first strike they make it perfectly clear like the engraved Morgans. Are there some people that don't know sure, but there's always going to be some that don't get it.
There have been issues with extreme delays where it was actually a correct numismatic term as well such as the baseball commems where extreme delays occured but yes for the most part it's just the nicer label that generally draws people to them as many of them have a nice presentation value to them and in some cases an added value such as the hall of famers signing labels for the baseball coins.
It's a positive to have these options and extra presentation options. That said if I was going to get rid of one it would be the Early Release, there are ones we know that actually did happen and it just doesn't really make sense from either a play on words or marketing sense.
Hit a spot that hurt.... Why does it seem, You're the one speaking down at others,? Your last posted answer, which my words are quoted, is a perfect example of my point about Not Only what you said, but more HOW you said it... Also, CAC is Another 3rd party company.!!!!... adjective: egregious
1. outstandingly bad; shocking. "egregious abuses of copyright" Other meanings or uses that are Similar: shocking appalling horrific horrifying horrible terrible awful dreadful grievous gross ghastly hideous horrendous frightful atrocious abominable abhorrent outrageous monstrous nightmarish heinous harrowing dire unspeakable shameful flagrant glaring blatant scandalous
Quote: Also, CAC is Another 3rd party company.!!...
Another incorrect statement.
They would technically be a 4th party service, they are also the only one the market has embraced as a whole for what they do so to call them "another" is attempting to demean them.
What exactly would be their equal that has been equally accepted?
Quote: Your last posted answer, which my words are quoted, is a perfect example of my point about Not Only what you said, but more HOW you said
It was an egregious statement towards the end your rant. You attempted to be demeaning and stand on a soap box in the sentence I quoted.
"The entire topic lends itself to knowledge, Either you have it, and know it or you pay for another person's opinions......." Your quote.
I didn't even bother to address the rest of the incorrect statements or half truths.
As I have said before, make your own choices use the TPGs or don't, think you know everything if you want, but please stop misleading people with false information and half truths.
Please stop telling what half-truths, CAC is a THIRD party Grader. Just another sticker. WHY do you feel it necessary to speak down and carry the I am holier than thou attitude, You would not last long face to face, Facts count, I do not know it all, Unlike Some here, Kind Sir...... People who feel they are in a position to judge, are more likely to be placed in their place, by facts, ( you have that attitude ) Let me guess, You have stock in the TPG'S.?.......... Look it up, CAC is a "3rd party " grader, . IMO, Just a rather different one. Are We twelve again? PS, If you would lower yourself, once again, Please explain my Less then truthful remarks, Take a listen.................
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and the elusive 1970-S Small date 
Posted 12/28/2019 10:06 pm
