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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10047 Posts |
I thought there was something posted in CCF before about the US not making a 500 b/c its easy enough to counterfeit the 100 that they don;t want to make more theft easier with higher denominations? I also think this is why 100.00s are not as readily accepted - too easy to fake and a bigger loss when accepted?
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Valued Member
 United States
411 Posts |
The FED pledge to destroy all $500 notes that came into their possession in 1969, and even though none had been produced since 1945 they pledged not to make any more in the future. But the end of the Gold Standard in 1971 meant the FED could begin to ramp up the production of the $100 banknote. There was only $44.5 billion in federal reserve notes in circulation at the end of 1969. By the end of 1979, the federal reserve notes in circulation totaled $106.7 billion. The total passed a trillion dollars by 2011. The buying power of $100 in 1969 is about $700 today. Quote:
SteveInTampa Forget about ever seeing a $500 US note anytime soon. As I said, politics will probably prevent that from happening. In the 13 months since the new €200 banknote was introduced, circulation of the €200 has increased by €55.6 billion (nearly double) while the old series €500 has decreased by €35.3 billion. The €200 is an odd denomination, and it was very unpopular compared to the €500 for 18 years. But given that the €500 has not been updated, the €200 is growing in popularity. So if increasing the popularity of the $50 is not viable, and the $500 is not politically possible, then is the $200 an option? I am not an idiot, and I do realize that the most probable outcome is to keep on increasing circulation of the $100 banknote. It's always easier to do nothing than to do something. But as the stock of $100s in circulation increases to ever higher amounts, replacing them will become a bigger and bigger problem. In the near future, the $100 denomination will surpass 90% of the banknotes in circulation (by value). The Euro mix seems much smarter. Have a huge number of €50 notes in circulation, and a limited number of €100s and €200s. In addition the old €500s will remain legal tender and only slowly wittle away over the years. The €20 is just a changemaker like the €5 and the €10. As of July 1 2020 €500 €212 billion €200 €112 €100 €322 €50 €595 small €123 total €1364 |
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Moderator
 United States
189647 Posts |
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Forget about ever seeing a $500 US note anytime soon.  Quote:
then is the $200 an option? Doubtful. The $100 being discontinued (making the $50 the top bill) is more likely to happen. That is, while I am not expecting the $100 to go away, its demise is more probable than the release of a hypothetical $200 (or larger). |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10047 Posts |
I thought there was something posted in CCF before about the US not making a 500 b/c its easy enough to counterfeit the 100 that they don't want to make more theft easier with higher denominations? I also think this is why 100.00s are not as readily accepted in some places. Taking a possible fake 100.00 is a bigger loss. I don't remember which new design it was, but a friend of mine working at a local Walmart told me it was only a couple of weeks after the newly designed bills with anti-counterfeiting devices were introduced that there were more than a couple fail the counterfeit pen test at their store. How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12847 Posts |
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And there is no way tiny air buds can compete with a 12" 300 WATT powered sub that has a Kevlar woofer and can go down to 23 HZ. Truth! I have a 12" Klipsch powered sub but I rarely get to use it to its potential... and probably will be that way until I get a man cave. Quote:
My Tannoy is only ten inches and half the power. That's plenty. Quality bass adds to the feel and experience of music. Who knows what's going to happen with cash in the coming post-COVID years, but like others, I don't see much of a possibility for $200 or $500 notes. |
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
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Then is the $200 an option?
Doubtful. - jbuck
So you are doubtful about the $200, $500 or some kind of revival of the $50. Basically, the percentage of banknotes in the $100 denomination will keep on climbing so that the US closely resembles the Japanese distribution. Percent of all banknotes in circulation by value 47.4% €500, €200, and €100 combined in Euro Area 81.0% $100 in the USA 92.6% JPY10,000 ~ $94.21 in Japan Do you see any problem at all with a banknotes supply that is over 90% one denomination? ------- You may not realize how terrible the disaster was a decade ago. In 2010 66% of the production had to be stored until a system could be developed to weed out all the bad notes. All of the production of 2011 and a large percentage of the notes in 2012 and 2013 were the green notes which had to be pulled out of circulation starting in fiscal year 2014 when they finally got the problem fixed. You are talking about billions of notes that were practically brand new. At the end of 2009, there were only 6.6 billion $100 notes in circulation. At the end of 2019, there were 14.2 billion $100 notes in circulation. Fiscal year production of $100 banknotes 2010 1,907,200,000-production of new color notes fails 2011 723,200,000-entire year is monochrome notes 2012 3,027,200,000-mix of monochrome and color 2 years 2013 4,428,800,000 2014 640,000,000-the machines were needed to catch up on production of the smaller denominations Please don't tell me digital currency is going to replace the $100 banknote. The $100 banknote is America's most profitable export. Edited by PacoMartin
07/25/2020 03:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
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In times of CV-19, I find that most recipients prefer cash, anyway. I disagree, and this is certainly not the case in stores and restaurants in my community. |
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Moderator
United States
189647 Posts |
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Do you see any problem at all with a banknotes supply that is over 90% one denomination? Not really, as it becomes less an issue as cash use continues to decrease. I think our still having one, two, and even five dollar notes are the bigger concern. |
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
South Korea's Won has four denominations of banknotes, equivalent in buying power to the $1, $5, $10, and $50. The four denominations of coins are 1/100 of the banknotes 1¢, 5¢, 10¢, and 50¢. Circulation at the end of 2018 on a per person basis is: 50,000 36.7 10,000 29.4 5,000 5.4 1,000 31.0 banknotes 102.5 500 47.3 100 186.0 50 38.8 10 174.4 coins 446.5 Instead of getting rid of the ~1¢ coin and turning the $1 banknote into a coin, S Korea is opting to abolish all coins in two years. Quote:
jbuck
Not really, as it becomes less an issue as cash use continues to decrease. I think our still having one, two, and even five dollar notes are the bigger concern. That is interesting that you would say that. As people find that there jars full of coins are no longer legal tender they will opt to buy almost everything from stores electronically. That means that although they are still legal tender, the banknotes equivalent to $1, $5 and even $10 will gradually vanish since they are basically changemakers. Eventually nearly all the currency in Korea will consist of the largest denomination banknotes which are valuable for private transactions, gifts, or for simply having a store of money in your home safe. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2578 Posts |
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I think our still having one, two, and even five dollar notes are the bigger concern. - I agree - since most nations have opted to make these denominations into coins. Canada's $1 banknote was retired & made into a coin ("loonie") back in 1989 & the Two was "retired" to coinage in 1996. In 2000 they got rid of our $1000 banknote due to their concern that these banknotes were a problem with money laundering (though no proof or case to support this theory was ever brought forward). As discussed in other threads (Cashless Society http://goccf.com/t/322441) many law enforcement agencies & the Better Than Cash Alliance ( BTCA) plus convenience & society's eager acceptance of plastic (rewards systems, etc) are all driving factors in the trend to use less cash. While many countries (Canada, UK, Sweden, China, etc) have rushed full-steam ahead towards using less cash, fortunately several factors have forced these nations to re-examine this drive to go digital. Cyber crime (problems with digital currencies)& access to cash during emergencies (plus the need for some sectors to continue using cash) are some of the evidence authorities have seen that have made cash in today's commerce still necessary. Fifties have become super popular in Canada (& that wasn't always the case esp with the Birds & Journey paper series). I believe that a denomination will survive if: A) there's a high degree of confidence in the security of the issued banknote (which can be bolstered by going polymer) B) the denomination is extremely economically useful/portable (you don't need too many to make a purchase) Edited by walk2dwater
07/27/2020 6:09 pm
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
Statistics as of 1 January 2019 Canada Distribution of Banknotes per person | % by Value$100 13.6 56.2%
$50 8.9 18.4%
$20 26.6 22.0%
$10 4.4 1.8%
$ 5 7.8 1.6%
total 61.3 USA Distribution of Banknotes per person | % by Value$100 41.0 81.1%
$50 5.4 5.4%
$20 28.8 11.4%
$10 6.1 1.2%
$ 5 9.4 0.9%
total 90.7 Quote:
walk2dwater Fifties have become super popular in Canada (& that wasn't always the case esp with the Birds & Journey paper series). I believe that a denomination will survive if:
A) there's a high degree of confidence in the security of the issued banknote (which can be bolstered by going polymer)
B) the denomination is extremely economically useful/portable (you don't need too many to make a purchase)
Even leaving out the $1 and $2 banknotes, the US is circulating many more banknotes per person than Canada. Canada has done a much better job than the US of using the $50 denomination. In every single denomination the US is circulating more banknotes per person than Canada except the $50 where US is circulating far less than Canada. The ratio of $50:$100s in circulation is 2:3 in Canada vs 1:8 in the US. If the US ratio was anywhere near Canada's ratio it would satisfy the important requirement of having a backup denomination for changeovers. The ~$5 coin is only used in Japan and Switzerland although I read that Norway has considered it. I wasn't aware that it was even a possibility in Canada Edited by PacoMartin
07/27/2020 10:52 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
600 Posts |
Gotta agree with @JBuck. I don't see any issue here. Some factoids about what bills are circulating where, but no real problem that needs a solution.
Edited by captaincoffee
07/27/2020 10:25 pm
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
Quote:
captaincoffee
Gotta agree with @JBuck. I don't see any issue here. Some factoids about what bills are circulating where, but no real problem that needs a solution. Well I think that you are completing ignoring the near disaster that was the introduction of the $100 color note. The requirement to produce tens of billions of notes that are both inexpensive and secure against counterfeiting meant that the production line broke down after printing 1.44 billion color notes. In an effort to recover an additional 3.5 billion greenbacks had to be printed, even though they would have to be pulled back out of circulation almost immediately once the color note production issues were fixed. The design of the $1 and $2 is over half a century old, and they have fairly primitive security features. Normally a huge number of new ones is ordered each year because the old notes wear out so fast. In FY2012-2013 the $100 banknote orders far outstripped the $1 orders as the BEP desperately tried to recover from their foul-up. If the BEP were a private corporation, they would almost certainly be bankrupt after a mistake of that magnitude. There was fear of widespread defection to the Euro banknote. The FED has announced that in this age of potential counterfeits, a new series should be introduced every 10 years. If that seems too extreme the Swiss maintain a 20 year schedule. As the stock of $100 bills keeps getting bigger and bigger it will undoubtedly be well past 20 billion notes before 2030. The task of replacing the series as quickly as the foreign holders of these banknotes demand grows more and more insurmountable. As I said earlier the $100 banknote is the most profitable export of the United States by a big margin now that Boeing is in the pits. Do you need more factoids? Edited by PacoMartin
07/27/2020 11:09 pm
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
As of 2015, there were 2 billion adults worldwide who didn't have access to banking services, making cash their only means of buying goods and services. Many of these people live in the world's poorest countries and rely on the US $100 bill as their savings account. Because of the worldwide use and the fear of counterfeiting the series must be renewed very quickly.
I look in my wallet and I see a 2003 series $1 banknote and a 2009 series $20 banknote, but of course it doesn't bother me to have such old money. But it would bother me to receive a $100 banknote of that age that wasn't even color. And I live in the US.
Back in fiscal year 1995 there were fewer than 3 billion small-headed $100 notes in circulation. The change out to the large-headed bills was relatively swift. At the end of fiscal year 2008, there were 6.3 billion monochrome notes when they introduced the color 2009 series. The introduction of new series was an unmitigated disaster. The next change out to a new series has the potential to create worldwide financial havoc. We will be trying to produce complex $100 banknotes at a rate much higher than the $1 bill with it's half century old design.
I'm surprised at how simple-minded some of the comments have been on this thread.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2578 Posts |
"PacoMartin"
- I don't think many would dispute some of your well thought out arguments re: higher denoms & the US $50. However, most of the population will only scratch their head when considering how to increase a specific denomination popularity. Unless there is a mass movement of US citizens demanding more $50 notes- the adoption of that $50 denom is unlikely to increase. Like language, money is a convention shared & shaped by a particular nations' usage. The masses are the driving factor. How business (& people) the US market adopts the $50 is completely out of an individual's hands (& yet collectively the masses will influence these things somewhat). Typically, at least in most democratic nations, the use (or lack of use) of a nation's currency is apolitical.
I once posted about our need to use cash in Canada (on CDN forum) & a few fellow members replied in a similar vein (a few people using cash won't change anything). While our $50 has gained significant traction during the pandemic it's still nowhere near the CDN custom of using a debit/credit card. [One of the reasons $50 were used so much here was the BOC had the foresight to stock CDN distribution centres with the cash prior to the pandemic lockdown]
And every country (culture) has a different slant towards cash (or credit). When I travelled in the Philippines I was aghast at how few tourist spots accepted credit cards (cash always being preferred). And I only saw one $200 Piso note on my last day there (after a month) so relatively unpopular denomination. Filipinos seem to have an outright distrust of plastic (so unlike Canada, Sweden, UK, China, etc.)
Edited by walk2dwater
07/28/2020 10:29 am
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Replies: 80 / Views: 7,676 |
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Posted 07/24/2020 1:57 pm
