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 Replies: 16 / Views: 3,751 |
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New Member
United Kingdom
1 Posts |
I have a George III Cartwheel Two Pence, weighing 68.4g? Any Ideas? Thickness 6mm I'm confused.    Edited by skyemaniac
12/29/2020 9:41 pm
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Moderator
 United States
34396 Posts |
@skye, first welcome to CCF. Second, I'm moving your thread over to the UK section of this forum so that we can get the right eyeballs on it and help answer your questions. Overall pics of both sides of the coin would help though.
Finally, I'm thinking that you may need to wait a few hours until your countrymen wake up to get much of an answer, although perhaps someone from ANZ will weigh in while you wait for then.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Official issues weight range 56.3 to 58.1 grams,
diameter 41mm, thickness 5mm.
Coin pictured could be an unofficial re striking by (W.J. Taylor)* in 1848, from original dies.
Quick calculation suggest coin pictured should be 6mm thick.
* Soon after 1848, W.J. Taylor migrated to Melbourne and set up a copper token minting business, later to become Stokes.
He also struck the extremely rare Port Philip (2 Ounce)**, 1 Ounce, Half Ounce and Quarter Ounce gold patterns.
** two examples exist. I have had the British Museum example sitting in the palm of my hand.
Edited by sel_69l
12/29/2020 10:15 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
945 Posts |
I can't tell you exactly what it is, but it is certainly not struck from the original dies. There are many differences in style - most notably the form of the shield on the reverse and the detail of the hair and drapery on the obverse. If you compare with this genuine original you can see what I mean:   |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
C Wilson Peck reported a huge number of minor die varieties.
I consideration of this,
I am still unable to offer any sort of reliable opinion as to
if the coin pictured is, or is not, from original dies.
Nevertheless,
I have to admit:- the face and style of Britannia does lead to suspicion.
Edited by sel_69l
12/30/2020 08:40 am
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
945 Posts |
The differences on the OP coin from a typical genuine coin are not "minor" in any way. In addition to the many differences in style, the central panels are not as deeply set as they should be. Right ones have a rounded edge to the lip of the central area, whereas the OP coin is square and too shallow.
I would suspect a much later attempt to produce a replica or fake - but why they chose to do it on too thick a piece of copper, I cannot explain.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
I am now tempted to speculate:
The early Australian token products of of W.J. Taylor were not quite up to the standard of English tokens of the 1812 to 1815 period.
My speculation is that W.J. Taylor may have made the dies for the coin pictured.
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Moderator
United States
187702 Posts |
 to the Community! |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
733 Posts |
Paddy is correct, without even considering the excess weight and thickness, this in no way resembles an official issue cartwheel. The reverse, particularly, is so clumsily rendered and amateurish. All the same, an unusual item and I'd love to know more regarding it's origin and intended purpose.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
694 Posts |
Modern copy probably from XXX. Craftmanship always catches the bad coins out.
Note from mod: Sorry but we don't allow the naming of that website here on CCF.
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Pillar of the Community
4628 Posts |
I will never have this problem again.
You can buy good quality scales for like $20, I bought a set that weighs to the nearest 0.01grams and does weights in grains, ounces etc for you traditionalists and Americans.
Of course buy them discretely as these scales I am sure are not aimed squarely at coin collectors (Hint hint more likely for more street level impulse traders).
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Moderator
Australia
16808 Posts |
Concur it's a fake. Intriguing to me are the clear punch-marks around each of the letters in the legends - which makes me wonder if each letter was hand-stamped onto the coin.
Which leaves the questions of Why and When. Its appearance, combined with the weight being significantly higher than standard, makes me think it is a modern replica, rather than a contemporary circulating counterfeit.
Let's call it the "Soto Mint" copy - as that's the name appearing beneath Britannia, rather than "Soho".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
733 Posts |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Britannia should have stayed off the pies.
That's one ugly looking fauxgery.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
733 Posts |
'Could be an unofficial re striking from original dies'. Hilarious.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Quote:
'Could be an unofficial re striking from original dies'. Hilarious. "unresearched" (x2) "Could be" (x2) "unofficial" completely unattributed reference. Seems legit.  (missing the other ambiguous descriptor - "uncertain" - or it would be a near clean sweep) |
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Replies: 16 / Views: 3,751 |
Posted 12/29/2020 10:06 pm
