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Why Zinc?

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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
pyrbob

Thanks for the explaination , I have been in many of these discussions and it always comes down to a savings on minting costs , and from my end it is always the same , the tax payer will not see any difference in the costs of the production of the coins our burden will not change the amount of dollars saved will only go to expand the profits of the fed .

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wd1040's Avatar
United States
3098 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2008  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wd1040 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
kicks in hard again in 2011


... sounds like my language .. the "kicks in hard"

Anyways, I agree because 2011 is probably when the stag/deflation ends. If the penny is not eliminated, then it would at least be made of a cheaper metal+the nickle would probably be a Half Dime or made of steel.

Anyways, here's a story. When the six dollar burger (named b/c at the time $6 for a burger was established as a well-agreed upon price for a burger at a high-class restaurant) at Carl's Jr/Hardees came out, it was $3. Now it's $6, and I don't see Carl's Jr becoming a high-class restaurant!
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MtnCoinMan's Avatar
United States
462 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MtnCoinMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Zinc is a LOT cheaper than copper

Absolutely correct. It may help to remember that Zinc fairly closely matches Lead in price. I think Lead and Zinc, on Friday, were right around fifty cents a pound. Copper was hanging around $1.50 a pound. Since it takes about 145 to 150 pennies, pre 1983, to make a pound, copper pennies are right at face value, bullion wise.

As for eliminating the penny, it will never happen in my life time (I am 48). Heck, I am still trying to figure out how to buy a gallon of gas?!? I just can't seem to find that 9/10 of a cent coin!
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Back to the original question in the thread:

The reason for the change from brass (not copper, exactly) to copper plated zinc is indeed because of the cost of copper. A composition change of the Lincoln Cent first took place in 1943 when the bronze being used at the time was needed for the war effort. The result was disasterous.

After trying all sorts of metals, resin, cellulose, bakelite, plastic, and even wood, the Mint settled on steel plated in zinc. It was cheap and abundant. Problem is, they were minting steel coins with steel dies, which led to numerous problems with dies breaking, planchets rusting, and dies wearing out in odd ways well before they would have with the softer copper-based bronze.

In 1944, even though the copper was still needed for the war effort, the composition was changed back to bronze. A decision had to be made and they decided it was better to use the copper than go through the expense of continuing to produce cents made of steel.

In 1962 the tin was dropped from the composition of the cent, leaving the composition 95% copper, 5% zinc. Officially the 'bronze' cent had ended, and we went to a light alloy mixture of brass (which is copper and zinc, but usually more than 5% zinc).

In 1973 copper started to get too expensive to continue making cents, so they tested a few different compositions. A number of 1974 dated copper coated steel cents were made, but they decided against this and opted for aluminum. Early in 1974 some 250,000 aluminum cents were produced, then all but a handful were destroyed when the idea was nixed. They stayed with brass for the time being.

1982 was the year they finally went away from the brass alloy and tried copper plated zinc. It seemed to work well enough, so they stuck with it. 1982-1988 saw a large number of issues with the copper plating properly sticking to the zinc. They tried a number of different types of wash to prepare the zinc for the copper bath, and finally rested with something that worked somewhere around 1988 or 1989.

During 2002-2003 the price of copper had risen from $1.50 per pound to $4.25 per pound. Talk rose again of either changing the cent or eliminating it altogether. Obviously neither has happened to date, but two things have happened that will ultimately play a role in what happens in the future. A bill has been raised to change the composition of the cent to copper plated steel (again) and it seems to be going over. The other thing is that copper prices are way down from previous highs (mostly because of the construction bust). Copper is once again around $2 per pound.

So to sum it all up, there won't be regular changes in composition. The price of the metal isn't the only thing that goes into what the coins are made of, there are a lot of other things to consider too. And finally, the Lincoln Cent has undergone more changes than any other U.S. coin. 41 different obverse designs, at least 20 different reverse designs, and 4 composition changes have happened - mostly under the radar of the typical onlooker, and even without notice by most collectors.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188847 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
No sales tax must be rounded.
Sales tax is already rounded. Calculate a 6% sales tax on something that cost $9.99 and tell me what you get.
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wd1040's Avatar
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3098 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  6:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wd1040 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Calculate a 6% sales tax on something that cost $9.99 and tell me what you get.


What? No one else here have 1/100 cent coins?
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Metalman's Avatar
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7123 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2008  9:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
its only rounded to the nearest upper cent , not the nearest upper 5 cents .

there is a huge difference .

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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188847 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2008  10:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
its only rounded to the nearest upper cent , not the nearest upper 5 cents .

there is a huge difference .
Not really when you compare the buying power of five cents today to 40 years ago.

Using an inflation calculator...

Quote:
What cost $.05 in 1968 would cost $0.29 in 2007.
Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2007 and 1968,
they would cost you $.05 and $0.01 respectively.

I must state again as I have in the past, taxes are not always rounded up! The total is rounded to the nearest whole amount, and will be rounded down if that is the case. Over time, the give and take will average out.

The "tax increase" you speak of is really the inability of the Federal Reserve to keep inflation in check. Had they done their job properly, you and I would not be having this discussion right now!

My desire to see the end of the cent for circulation is not that I think it will save taxpayer money; the Federal Government will find a way to spend twice what this will supposedly save on something else. My thought is that the population in general has no respect for the cent, so why bother? I say they should just make a small quantity of "proper copper" cents (bronze, brass, whatever) for the collectors only, just as they do the Kennedy half dollar now!
Edited by jbuck
12/15/2008 10:41 am
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