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Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V3.0)

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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 11/10/2021  7:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very cool that we "bookend" this decade (or nearly so) with @JohnC's groat from London which lacks the chess piece I's, and the creative Calais coin!

Edit: By chance, I ran across this same letter I four decades later, on coins minted in Antwerp in 1475. Interestingly, coins in my collection minted in Antwerp in the 1470s do not have it, so there must have been multiple engravers working there (not surprising since this mint was striking over 1,000,000 silver coins per year in the 1470s). Maybe this one had apprenticed with the Calais engraver? The English and Burgundians were allies most of teh 15th century (though that is a bit far to go for such training)
Reverse of Brabant 1 briquet, 1475 (letters I at 3:00, 6:00 and 7:00):
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Reverse of Brabant 1/2 briquet 1475 (letters I at 3:00 and 4:30):
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Edited by tdziemia
11/11/2021 07:46 am
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 11/11/2021  06:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good question @tdz, but one to which I don't know the answer. Maybe I need to study the letter I next.

This is a Groschen from the German Archbishopric of Cologne that is dated 1438 AD. It was minted at Riehl and is attributed as Levinson I-44. It is my last AD-dated coin for this decade, but not the last one with this design that we will be seeing on this thread.


Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 11/11/2021  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This Akce from Mecca is dated 834 AH, which corresponds to 1431 or 1432 AD. It was minted at Serez for Murad II and is attributed as Album 1302.3. This was the first coin from this decade to land in my collection and the last one that I have to post for this decade.


Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Russian Federation
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 Posted 11/12/2021  04:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This Akce from Mecca is dated 834 AH, which corresponds to 1431 or 1432 AD.
As far as I can tell, 834 AH = 1430/1 AD, mostly 1431.
This means that, as far as I can tell, the list of gaps remains unchanged: 1435, 1432, 1430.

Awesome coin! And nice to know that there's something to look for in the 1430s from the Islamic side as well.

I have a coin that might be from 1430s or later, but I seem to have problems photographing it.
My next entry after that is 1380s (a recent ID of a slightly less recent purchase), though I have some Prague groschens that might slot somewhere in between (I don't know the typology for them, however, so I'm not very confident of the dating).
Edited by january1may
11/12/2021 04:12 am
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 11/12/2021  07:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've got a few new things attributable to single years
for the next decades of the 1400s.

In particular,the Polish halfgroats of Wladyslaw Jagiello have been attributed to narrower slices over 1394-1414 by Pawlikowski, including single year attributions for 1403, 1407, 1408. I don't have the reference, but there are enough auction records available to figure it out.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 11/12/2021  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thx for the date input @j1m!

Any last entries for this decade? Maybe let's plan to drop back to the 1420s starting tomorrow am.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2021  05:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a 2 mite coin from the county of Flanders that can be attributed to 1428. dePas Suppl., 9, 12. (sorry to take the "eye appeal" factor down so far compared to those last three coins from spence for the 1430s ). Most of what I have with narrow date ranges for the next 100 years comes from the Low Countries, where well preserved mint records starting in the 14th century have allowed numismatists to date many coins to narrow year ranges

Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0

Obv: Large gothic F L. + Ph'S D B COM FLAND (Philip, DUke of Burgundy and Count of Flanders)
Rev: Short cross pattee, one lily and one lion in the angles. + MONETA FLANDRIE (letters A with crossbars)

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 Posted 11/13/2021  10:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a fair few for the 1420s, but nothing that can be tied to an exact year.

Here's another of Henry VI, a halfgroat from Calais. I have another Henry VI halfgroat and groat from Calais in addition to this - I'm not sure how I came to have so many when I'm aiming for one coin per monarch. But this and another came with details of where they were found, which makes them unusual.

Henry VI Annulet Issue Halfgroat, 1422-1427
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Calais. Silver, 22.7mm, 1.5g. Annulets either side of bust, hENRIC' DI' GRA' REX A[NG]LIE Z F', mintmark cross II. Long cross pattee with 3 dots in each quadrant, two with annulets, POSVI/ DEVM/ ADIVT/ORE' [M'] // VIL/LA/ CAL/LIS' (S 1840).

This scrappy coin is from the Buttermere (Wiltshire) Hoard 2019. It contained 12 coins but had been scattered, and probably included the 30 coins found nearby. The hoard was recorded with the Portable Antiquities Scheme HAMP-CDF2F1.

It contained an Edward III groat, 8 Henry VI groats and 2 Henry VI halfgroats. But it's an Edward IV halfgroat that dates it to 1464-1470, Edward IV's first reign, during the Wars of the Roses (1455-1487).

At the time, Buttermere Manor was occupied by William Ludlow, butler to Kings Henry IV, Henry V and Henry VI and MP for Ludgershall, Wiltshire.

Like Ludlow, the landowners in the area seem to have been Lancastrians, including the noble Hungerford family. Sir Thomas Hungerford of Rowden, Wiltshire, whose father was executed by Edward IV, supported the Lancastrians and was executed himself for supporting a conspiracy to restore Henry VI. He was said to have "received the fullest and protracted horrors of a fifteenth century execution." Yikes.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 11/13/2021  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very cool provenance on that Half Groat @john!

Here is a Goldgulden from the German Electorate of Pfalz. It is datable to 1426 AD and was minted in Bacharach. I have it attributed as Friedberg 1976 and Felke 1126. Unfortunately it was mounted at one point.

Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2021  07:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This Groschen from the German City State of Aachen is my avatar. It was minted in 1420 AD and has been in my collection for a little over a decade. The obv inscription is SCS KAROL MA G IPERATO and the rev inscription is ANNO DOMINI MILESIMO CCCC XX MONETA VRB AQVS. It is interesting to me that the number thousand is written out, while the four hundreds and two tens use Roman Numerals. This coin is attributed as Levinson I-15.

Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2021  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Unfortunately it was mounted at one point.

Given that it is medieval gold, sometimes we compromise! (and I would not have known it had mount damage until you said it)

Quote:
It is interesting to me that the number thousand is written out

I know I have seen that same construction of a 15th century date on another coin recently, probably from the nearby Low Countries since I've been spending a lot of time poking around there recently. I'll post a reference when I find it.
And I love that turnosegroschen!

I recently nabbed this ragged 2 mite coin from Burgundian Netherlands/County of Flanders that is attributed to 1427, dePas 8,10. The lack of crossbars on the letters A allows it to be dated to 1427. Seller's photos, coin not yet in hand.

Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Edited by tdziemia
11/14/2021 08:33 am
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2021  2:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@tdz, you have been diving into the low countries a bunch lately. Despite the edge erosion on this 2 Mite, I like it and it is a good addition to your collection.

Here are a couple more Ottoman Akces from my collection. The top is dated AH 824 (retrograde order) and the bottom is dated AH 825, so it seems like I've pretty much got 1421 and 1422 AD covered between these two coins. They are attributed as Album 1302.1 and 1302.2, respectively.


Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0


Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5181 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2021  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome coins, everyone!
I agree, that 1427 coin looks fragile. I hope it gets through the mail in one piece.

Current status for 1420s:

1429 - none yet
1428 - @tdziemia
1427 - @tdziemia (pending arrival)
1426 - @Spence
1425-3 - none yet
1422 - @Spence (825 AH)
1421 - @Spence (824 AH)
1420 - @Spence
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 Posted 11/14/2021  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coins are getting more varied the further back we go! Plenty I knew nothing about.

I'm going back to Russia again - we're getting into quite an interesting period there politically and numismatically.

This is (probably) from Vasily Vasiliyevich's first reign of three or four as Grand Prince of Moscow (1425-1434).

This was one of a 'new' style of coin, the earliest being struck from 1418 (starting under Vasily Dmitriyevich). I don't think this particular design was amongst the very earliest. Some experts have them being struck in the 1430s.

Vasily II the Blind Denga, 1425-1433
Walking-Back-In-Time-From-1600-To-Antiquity-By-Decades-V3.0
Moscow. Silver, 0.6g. Rider with a falcon; point rim. Imitation of an Arabic inscription (Metz 11; HPF 407 J var, imitation M3, reverse VI).

The obverse is a familiar-looking horseman, although this one held a falcon rather than a sabre or spear.

The reverse is a blundered attempt at an inscription from a Golden Horde dang. I think it's upside down, but since it doesn't actually say anything, that probably doesn't matter.
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 11/14/2021  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I agree, that 1427 coin looks fragile. I hope it gets through the mail in one piece.

I know this is not quite what we usually mean by "provenance" here, but this is what I know about this coin from the seller:
This specimen was found at the depot of the tram tunnel route in Rotterdam.

Detector find? Construction site? Either would explain the ragged condition.

@JohnC those Russian coins are great.
Edited by tdziemia
11/14/2021 8:27 pm
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