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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7974 Posts |
Quote:
Do some of these immobilised deniers have more precise dates based on die studies?
With the 'immobilised' English coins (Henry II-Henry III, Edward I-III), the experts seem to have been able to break them down to the nearest 4 or 5 years based on whether the E is pointed or the crown is a bit crooked. I think that also needs to be combined with some other information, often gathered from hoards, that can be used to establish a date. Maybe these Melgeuil coins haven't shown up in hoards with enough frequency to narrow them further? |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
725 Posts |
Quote:
I think that also needs to be combined with some other information, often gathered from hoards, that can be used to establish a date. Maybe these Melgeuil coins haven't shown up in hoards with enough frequency to narrow them further? Yes that's how it was done with English pennies. It's true that for many of those, there are a lot of hoards to use. There's a similar problem dating Celtic and Saxon coins because they're rarely in hoards. If they are, it's not often with any datable material. Still, they tend to be given 10-50 year ranges. A 250 year range is either very unlucky or no-one has looked into it. You'd think they'd have found one or two under a church paving stone or in a bit of datable pottery. But maybe these types are rather provincial and it's a lot of work to sort them out. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1186 Posts |
These two will not move the thread. 1063-74 Hungarian Denar under King Salomon;Huszar 14,Unger 8,Rethy I-14,CAC Vol. I/7.1/a1b1.2/23. It has a sigla of one point under the left arm and a wedge under the right arm. This is the only sigla variety I have out of 29.   1063-74 Hungarian Denar under King Salomon;Huszar 17,Unger 10,Rethy I-22,CAC Vol. I/7.5.2/b2.1/18/7.5.6/2. It has a sigla of a wedge under the left arm and a wedge to the right of the cross he is hoding. This is the only sigla variety I have out of 80 obverse and 3 reverse varieties.   |
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Moderator
  United States
34465 Posts |
Hey I've got one of those too @ed! I picked it up in a SARC auction earlier this year and I must admit that I'm always a little surprised to successfully bid on these pieces because I assume that I'm going up against you on every single one. Not sure yet on the specific sigla marks though as I haven't yet had a chance to do a thorough attribution.   "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Moderator
United States
34465 Posts |
Here is a Chinese Cast Cash from the first reign of Emperor Shen Tsung (Northern Song Dynasty) that dates to between 1068 and 1077 AD. I have attributed it as Hartill 16.171.   "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1186 Posts |
@Spence. The sigla on yours looks like the semicircle with a point on each end next to the left elbow (as we look at it) and a point to the left of the head. It looks like the same reverse variety as mine. It would be CAC Vol. I/7.5.2/a3d1.1/62/7.5.6/2.
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Moderator
United States
34465 Posts |
Ok yes thx for the help with the attribution! I really appreciate that. I've got a few more coins that have date ranges starting in this decade. Here is a French Denier minted in Orleans between 1060 and 1108 AD. The obv inscription is +PHILIPVS X RED D -I while the rev inscription is +AVRELIANIS CIVITA. I have attributed it as Duplessy 50.   "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Moderator
United States
34465 Posts |
Here is a Denar from the Austrian City of Bohemia that dates to between 1061 and 1085 AD. It was minted in Prague under the authority of Wratislaus II. The legends are a bit degraded, but read something like SCSNCCCSVS on the obv and ATIZLAV DV on the rev. I have attributed it as Frynas B.10.2, Cach 346, and Smerda 158. Sorry for the overly bright pics.   "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5181 Posts |
Quote:
Here is a Denar from the Austrian City of Bohemia I'm not sure what the exact status of Bohemia was at the time but "Austrian City" is surely not it.  |
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Moderator
United States
34465 Posts |
Well yep. I originally had Bohemia being a German city, but then revised it at some point along the way. I'm happy to fix it again if you have a suggestion. Maybe a Holy Roman Empire? Thx.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
725 Posts |
'City' is perhaps more of an issue than 'Austrian' (depending on whose empire it belonged to at the time), although it is fundamentally a Czech region.
The history looks a nightmare of confusion. It does seem it was part of the Holy Roman Empire in 1085. Still, I might call it a Duchy of Bohemia coin.
Edited by JohnConduitt
09/03/2022 5:41 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
2124 Posts |
The Duchy of Bohemia, part of the Holy Roman Empire, until 1085 when it was raised to a kingdom (still in HRE) and Duke Vratislav II became King Vratislav II. Legends: SCS WECESVS (Sanctus Wenceslaus, patron saint of Bohemia) (V)RATISLAV DV(X) Interesting style of the letters. And a nice coin  . Edited by erafjel
09/03/2022 5:45 pm
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Moderator
United States
34465 Posts |
Ok thx all for your help with my coin. This one took a village.  I actually purchased it primarily for those sideways S letterforms! "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Moderator
United States
34465 Posts |
Here is a Denar from Moravia that can be dated to between 1061 and 1087 AD. It was minted at Olomonc under the authority of Otto I. The letterforms are pretty blocky as you can see, but I have the inscriptions as SCSD T VC and + OTTO DVX. It is attributed as Cach 369 and Smerda 328.   "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Moderator
United States
34465 Posts |
Ok here is my last coin for this decade: a Denar from the German Bishopric of Speyer that dates to between 1067 and 1073 AD. The obv inscription is HEINRICVS S EP while the rev inscription is HEINRICVS REX. It is attributed as Pannenberg 841.   "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Posted 09/01/2022 12:38 pm
