Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Shop CCF Members on eBay! 300,000 items to help build your collection! Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Silver Surface Enrichment & Early India Coinage

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 2 / Views: 912Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2022  12:48 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/581571

Surface Enrichment in Medieval Indian Silver Coins- Shiny Deception

I found this talk very applicable to the surface enrichment phenomenon. I did not attend this talk in NYC at the NYITL and it is two years ago but I found the results noteworthy to the effects of silver surface enrichment (SSE). If we view the standard reference L. Beck on SSE:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...e_techniques

Beck made three conclusions:

1. Silver alloys with copper between 15-20% or less the SSE effect will be minimal between surface and core.
2. 15-20% >Ag< 72% its dependent on factors like annealing, environmental conditions, etc. on what the silver surface value enrichment will be as compared to the inner core.
3. Ag >72% expect elevated levels consistently.

In his talk John Deyell actually used a noted Canadian analyst which was the same analyst Mike Diamond used on my Peace dollar lamination study for verification in a Coin World Collector's Clearinghouse. Anyway - he knows his business ... his conclusions were correct but he was still a bit confused in the #2 aspect above. Studies have shown that sometimes the Ag here can be close and he never mentions he did any form of polishing on his surface studies. From my studies for #2 above I have seen XRF surface (polished) and XRF core to be in somewhat a close agreement. So what is my point here in this post - if I attended the meeting I would have advised the following:
1. Indeed - if the surface XRF study on a polished edge (i.e., less noticeable) is 20% or less in a Ag/Cu alloy expect the inner core to somewhat mimic the surface readings. VERY LITTLE quantitative differences.
2. For Ag in the 20-70% range this will be coin dependent and either slicing, procuring drilled core samples or just ballparking a polished edge in some situations may be adequate. Results will vary coin by coin. I think he had large differential readings as the surface results were from an UNPOLISHED surface reading.
3. If 70% or higher expect significant changes. I once did a silver surface enrichment study on a 1964 Kennedy 90% Half Dollar. Both core and surface readings were IDENTICAL! It takes at least a century or more for SSE to take effect in my opinion. On the other end of the spectrum I have seen surface readings of 99%+ on ATOCHA 8R seawater salvage pieces with all the Cu being leached out coupled with the SSE effect!!!
This is a great first talk and study on debasement of issues with time but it shows for exact quantitative readings anything above 20% may need to be sliced or for core samples to be taken. Polishing the edges may negate this but I never undertook a debasement silver/copper XRF study. John Deyell did a great job! But as he inferred it can be overwhelming at first ... <BG> John Lorenzo Numismatist United States
CCF Advertiser
Learn More...
louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1303 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2022  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From your second link, I have talked in my chemistry class a lot about this process Romans used below. Just because it follows lectures I do about chemical reactions and noble vs active metals, and the sheer brilliance of the method for this time.

(1)
casting button of silver-copper alloy, (2) heating
the button in air to form a layer of copper oxides,
(3) acid-pickling the flan for removing the copper
oxides and revealing the silver-phase, (4) hammering
the blank for spreading silver-phase laterally
and (5) striking the blank.
Edited by louisvillekyshop
02/13/2022 1:35 pm
Pillar of the Community
colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2022  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes this is why we always read in some ancient processes of using lime juice or some other form of acid media in a form of blanching to bring up the silvering say on counterfeits or just in a legitimate process of coining.

Blanching is the whitening of metal, by various means, such as soaking in acid or by coating with tin. This term is commonly used in coinage, in which pieces are given a luster and brilliance before images are struck into the surface.
  Previous TopicReplies: 2 / Views: 912Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.2 seconds to rattle this change. Forums