| Author |
Replies: 64 / Views: 10,781 |
|
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
114 Posts |
hfjacinto .. I think that you are not taking into account inflation between 1999 when I bought them and now.
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
114 Posts |
It seems that I have a major conundrum here, and that is to calculate the USD value of the gold content of these banknotes. It's going to take a real math wizard to do it. It is beyond my capabilities. But, I can supply all the info needed. Hopefully there is someone in our community that can do it and enjoys a good challenge. So first, here's the background. The changeover rate, in January1999 when I first started buying this collection, was $37.00 USD to $100.00 Antigua Barbuda. And that was for paper money. That says nothing about the value of the metals in the bills, but makes you think that you are getting $100.00 for $37.00 if you don't know the conversion rate. I bought them for $38.50 USD each, a slight premium over the paper money value. They were supposedly legal tender at the time (in Antigua Barbuda), and maybe they still are. That tells me that the metal content must have been, at that time, less than what I paid or it wouldn't have been practical for them to produce and sell them. What is the value of $38.50 in 1999 USD today with inflation? Now for the facts needed to calculate the gold value of the bill. They advertised the bill being 23k gold foil with .999 silver ships embossed on them. Taking it for granted that each bill is of the same thickness, which I figure is a good bet. Measuring the thickness with my digital Vernier caliper, it measures out to .011 thick. Measuring with a machinists ruler, it measures out to 6" by 2 ½". Using those measurements, someone should be able to figure the volume of the bill and find out how much gold is in each one. (23k not 24k) These calculations will completely ignore the silver foil that is only embossed on the surface of the gold. The silver is negligible anyway. The only other way I can think of to find the gold content would be to buy one on the internet and find a way to analyze it, thus probably destroying it as a collectable. They are easily found for sale on the net, which leads me to think that there were a lot of people who never completed the collection, or there were some people who broke them up to sell, which makes the total of complete collections to be far less than 20,000, making complete collections more valuable. Let me know what you think.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Gold was around 300.00 US in 1999, my guess would be take one of these note to a gold or larger coin dealer that has a table top XRF not the portable gun type and see if it is 23 K, the only reason most people is confused is there are recent sales for around 300.00 for whole sets of 30. If the units are 23K gold your value is in the uptick of the bullion value, Good Luck !
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
114 Posts |
I have a feeling that the value on these is much greater than they are selling for. I could be wrong and I would not mind being proven wrong as long as I could get a definitive value to solve this question.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Most dealers can smell money, they might have XRF the notes and found them not to be 23K, this is the most important fact you need to verify, a normal paper note is around 1 gram
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
7276 Posts |
Now that we know the date purchased, the notes being all gold make more sense. Gold in 1999 sold on average for $278.86 (per troy ounce) or $8.67 per gram, assuming 2.4 grams we have $20.81 for 24K and $19.41 for 23K. Considering the notes cost $38.50, you are looking at a profit to the seller of about $17-$18 per note (minus expenses).
So yes based on 1999 prices the notes could be ~ 2.4 grams of 23K gold. That still doesn't explain the current selling price though.
If this was me, I would get the notes XRF and have the dealer get the gold estimate in each goin. At 2.4 grams of gold, you are talking $141 in gold in each note.
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
114 Posts |
I would not be at all surprised at $141.00 value per note in todays dollars. As for XRF, that's not a possibility for me. I live in the small town of Deming New Mexico which is 60 miles from any town that might even have one. I have no car or any way to get there. There is, I'm sure, no XRF here in this town We are in the high desert country. hfjacinto .. It may be true that I overpaid for them in 1999 but I've kept them, and in pristine condition, long enough that I may wind up having the last laugh after all. So that is not an answer for me. If someone in the community would be interested in purchasing one on the net and could do that, it would solve the problem. With the low price that they are going for it might prove to be a profitable move. Until that happens we will not know. I think that the answer to the current low selling price on them is that no one really knows what they have because of all the confusion surrounding them. I mean, after all, look at the trouble that we are having solving this riddle.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
7276 Posts |
@garbanzo, you are correct, we had a pretty lively debate on what you have. I wish you good luck. I will offer 1 more favor, I have several coin shops locally, I would be willing to get 1 XRF'ed for you and find out the actual gold content is and ship it back to you.
I know you don't know me from Adam, but this is more a curiosity to me as it is to you.
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
114 Posts |
hfjacinto .. While I do appreciate the offer I am unwilling to let go of one of them and trust it to the possibility of damage in any way. Not that I have any reason to mistrust you, but things do get lost and damaged in the mail. I do a lot of buying on the internet and, over the course of the past few years, you would not believe how many of my packages have come through damaged by uncaring and incompetent people. Or totally disappearing altogether. Sorry but that's not going to happen. This is a full and complete set and the loss or damage of one can cost me too much. Someone is just going to have to buy one and test it themselves. Until then I'll keep them safe and sound right here like I have for the past 13 years. Thanks for the offer though.
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
114 Posts |
Of course I meant the past 23 years.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
7276 Posts |
@garbanzo, I understand and would think the same way. Thank you for posting these!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2575 Posts |
Quote: I bought them for $38.50 USD each, a slight premium over the paper money value. They were supposedly legal tender at the time (in Antigua Barbuda), and maybe they still are... What is the value of $38.50 in 1999 USD today with inflation? So you bought the set for $38.50 + postage X 30? That would be $1155.00 USD + postage back in 1999? According to my inflation calculator that would be worth $2,026.42 today. Here's a set of 30 offered for $450 USD on ebay (shipping included): https://www.ebay.com/itm/175183634148It appears as if the set has lost $1576 in the past 23 years? Very odd!
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
114 Posts |
walk2dwater .. I'm thinking that as soon as someone actually finds out the value definitively that price will skyrocket. It may very well be a good buy right now.
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
114 Posts |
walk2dwater .. you didn't figure into the equation the value of gold going up. That's part of the confusion. You are dealing with the value of the paper money.
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
114 Posts |
OK folks, here is some information that I think that you all should have concerning The Worlds First Gold And Silver Banknotes. I had the thought that these may have been very undervalued because of the rise in gold prices between 1999 when I bought them and today. Well I was wrong. With help from Helder, we had one of them tested and here are the results. .......................... Happy Friday. I ended up making it to the coin dealer. I showed him the note and he said it was very nice. The first thing we did was weigh the note, and then enter the weight into the gold tester. We entered the Karat based on the note and then tested it and the tester said it wasn't gold? So my dealer looked at the note and asked if we could do a small cut. I said sure as I needed to find out what's up. We made a small cut and that was when we discovered the center of the note is paper. The paper is covered in a very thin gold foil. Based on the acid test we concluded the gold foil is at least 23K and the silver is just a thin applique which must be bonded to the gold. Based on 2.2 Grams weight of the note, the tester said it had less then 10% gold. No matter what setting we tried it wasn't enough gold to register. So the dealers feelings are that the notes are at most .2 grams of gold (about $10 in gold), but due to the work in removing it from the paper backing he wouldn't buy it. The notes basically only have collector value and insignificant gold value. .............. In answer to this email, I told him that he could do what he wanted with the bill and that it was good to finally know that the real value of these notes are not what many of us may have thought. So, I figured that all of you should profit from the knowledge that we have gained, and not have to find out the hard way like it seems that I did. (I payed $1155.00 back in "99" for this set. And you can buy them today for around $500.00)
|
| |
Replies: 64 / Views: 10,781 |