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What Would You Do In This Situation?

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LondonCoin's Avatar
Canada
149 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2009  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LondonCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't like there portion.. where it says "sole opinion is binding." They can say what ever they want.. and then I can't talk to them to negotiate. That's why I have to give it time and wait until they offer me something reasonable. I'm going to start posting this story on more forums. To get the word spread so they work a little harder on getting a replacement or offer me something reasonable. PS. I still haven't got an email back since a few weeks ago.

Also.. I'm going to be speaking to coin newspapers soon. To get an article in there about there guarantee and about how they are treated me. Not calling me back when they say they will. Even me calling NCS.. asking for someone.. the secretary goes.. comes back asks me for my name.. and right after I say my name, she says there busy.. and they will call me back.. and then they don't. Right now it seems like there avoiding me.

Does anyone else have any NCS/NGC coins that they have problems with.. ? I wouldn't mind getting more info on here about the mistakes the company is making.
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
United States
2335 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2009  6:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been following this thread with interest because of the varying points of view. I can see where a valid complaint for a full refund of market value could be made if the coin had been purchased in an NCS slab & was then found to be fake. However, the original purchase of this coin was raw & the buying decision was not made based on NCS' authentication. Based on that I can see where NCS could make a case for only refunding the slabbing fee, as the buyer is in the same position as they were in before NCS slabbed the coin.

Personally I wouldn't have made such a large purchase without more knowledge. I also would have kept the paperwork behind the purchase at least as long as I had the coin. Legally, taxes must be paid on the sale of an asset, without proof of purchase you could be liable for the entire amount of the sale, even if you showed a loss on the item.
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2009  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I were you get a lawyer, so everything can be documented before even giving back the coin for re examin.
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United States
1231 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2009  8:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add onejinx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I was to ever spend alot of money on a coin (which to me is anything over $200) I would be keeping a receipt or paperwork for it. Every coin I have ever bought off of ebay I have a printed receipt for in 2 or 3 binders and it could be anywhere from $1 to $100. Same goes for buying from a dealer.

If the particular coin doesn't come onto the market that often, then either you will have to accept NCS offer or keep the coin and take a total loss.



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LondonCoin's Avatar
Canada
149 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2009  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LondonCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had the coin checked by a few people when I bought it. None of them noticed it was fake. Like I said before and will say again I sent the coin into NCS to be 100% it was real. While I still kept the persons contact info. After it came back real, I didn't see any use in keeping the info.

Go to a bazaar in Poland and ask for receipts.. It's like a private sale.. 99% of the people wont give you one.
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Bonedigger's Avatar
United States
1267 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2009  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bonedigger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Every coin I have ever bought off of ebay I have a printed receipt for in 2 or 3 binders...


Glad I'm not the only one...

Take Care
Ben
Pillar of the Community
United States
1231 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2009  6:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add onejinx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Go to a bazaar in Poland and ask for receipts.. It's like a private sale.. 99% of the people wont give you one


Ok, now I'm a little lost. You originally said you purchased the coin at a Poland coin show from a dealer.

So did you buy the coin at a coin show from a dealer or in some bazaar?

And what price did NCS offer?

Every dealer I have met has always been willing to write a receipt. Twice a year we have a small local show (3 dealers set-up in a strip mall) and they will write a receipt.
Edited by onejinx
02/17/2009 6:16 pm
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LondonCoin's Avatar
Canada
149 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2009  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LondonCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It was a coin/antique bazar (military, coins, stamps). Similair to coin shows we have in Canada.. but it was half out side and half inside. At this time I really don't want to be focused on what they are offering me. It is seriusly a JOKE. I really want people to hear more about how they are treating me (ignoring me now). After they start talking to me again, and when we work something out I will let everyone know what they paid me. The person I bought the coin from had a few albums there with coins.. I don't know if I would call him a dealer or not. He does not have a store.. it was more like a private sale I guess.

NCS did say they would replace the coin. The problem is they can't find one for the price they are willing to pay. It's becuase the coin is worth a LOT more money. Like I've mentioned before I really don't care at this point if they replace it, or if they work a price out with me. As long as it's a fair price, and done in a timely fashion. Its been close to two months already.. and we have made almost zero progress. I don't see them making any progress anytime soon too.
Edited by LondonCoin
02/18/2009 3:21 pm
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2009  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
However, the original purchase of this coin was raw & the buying decision was not made based on NCS' authentication.

I would disagree since he was keeping the dealers contact information I assume so he could reverse the transaction if if came back as a fake and then he discarded the information and in effect finalized the deal based on the strength of NCS's declaration that it was genuine. So the decision WAS based on NCS authentication. I'm sorry but they have a guarantee which claims that they will stand behind their opinion. They need to do so. He needs to become a public thorn in their side until they do.
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QuickSilver's Avatar
United Kingdom
1077 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2009  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add QuickSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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United States
1231 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2009  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add onejinx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think NCS's offer is relevant because you are assuming fair market value is $9,000++.

Is there a reason why you haven't posted this over on the NCS boards? Maybe you will get a response from them quicker.
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norseman012's Avatar
United States
357 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2009  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norseman012 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do you really think this person would have returned his money back to him since this was basically a flea market type of sale he attended in another country and would not give him a receipt at the time of the sale. Does that not make you think.
Did you ever try to contact the seller since you came home with the coin. (I would like to say I'm sorry to the CCF members for the earlier colorful remark I posted on this thread.) It was not called for. I would have never bought a such an expensive coin like this with out making sure I knew what I was getting my self in to. knowledge is a very important think when you set out to buy coins. If you don't know what your doing, do the research and this wouldn't happen to you. Sorry machaj I feel sorry for you and your dilemma I hope you can solve this mess with NCS or better yet with the person who sold you this coin.. Have you tried to contact any coin clubs in Poland to see if this person is known to them. hey what about the place this market was held at. I'm sure they would have some records of who he was. I don't think this person would be to hard to find since he was selling a rare and expensive coin like this. Coins like this coin is something people talk about and rumors and stories travel fast in this hobby even in Poland. I thing you need to focus on finding this person in Poland and stop putting all the blame on NCS you never resubmitted the coin to NCS or any other TPG to get it checked out. and the only thing you done was to alienate NSC by coming here and telling Your Story.
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
United States
2335 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2009  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I would disagree since he was keeping the dealers contact information I assume so he could reverse the transaction if if came back as a fake and then he discarded the information and in effect finalized the deal based on the strength of NCS's declaration that it was genuine. So the decision WAS based on NCS authentication. I'm sorry but they have a guarantee which claims that they will stand behind their opinion.


I'm going to split a couple hairs here. While the decision to keep the coin was based on NCS authentication, the actual purchase decision wasn't. We really don't have any way of knowing whether or not the seller of the coin would have refunded anything. In fact, the purchaser states that the sale was not from an established dealer, but was a private sale. In such a case it's highly probable that if NCS had called it a fake & body bagged the coin the purchaser would not have been able to get a refund.

I agree that once the coin was in the slab that NCS bears a certain amount of responsibility. I believe they should uphold their guarantee. However, based on the information we have been given we don't know how much the coin is worth or if the offer by NCS is reasonable. Obviously the purchaser has an idea of value, & thinks that the value NCS has assigned is not enough. Then again, both the purchaser & NCS thought the coin was genuine, so how much is their opinion of value worth anyway?
Edited by trdhrdr007
02/18/2009 10:16 pm
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norseman012's Avatar
United States
357 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2009  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norseman012 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I understand what you are saying. We can talk about this until the cows come home. The coin needed to be reexamined first and find out if it really is a fake in the first place . I have not seen or read anything so far to tell me this coin is a fake. nobody has given any proof of this coin being a fake .pretty much some of the people here are assuming its a fake and what if its real, a genuine coin. what then. There are some people here jumping all over NCS for no reason with out any conclusive proof. WE have not heard from NCS maybe they checked it under a microscope and knew about the fakes that are being made. The Smithsonian seems to have a lot of faith in NCS/NGC. They are not stupid they know what they are doing and what is at stake. Like I said from the very beginning send it in and get it checked.
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LondonCoin's Avatar
Canada
149 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2009  02:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LondonCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm planning on driving to ICCS in Toronto to get it checked out if its fake (probably next week).

When I purchased the coin I looked at it over and over again.. Checked the date so many times. I seriously have no clue how I didn't notice. I emailed the CEO of NCS today, hopefully he gets back to me.

I'll be back on tomorrow to post some more interesting things I have received from NCS. Letter + email. You will be surprised what they wrote.

I really appreciate all the support.
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