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Commems Collection Classic: 1936 Hearing - Medals Vs. Coins

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commems's Avatar
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 Posted 07/21/2024  12:07 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
In March 1936, a Subcommittee of the Senate Committee on Banking and Currency met to review a full agenda of coin and medal proposals: six commemorative coins (Delaware, Long Island, Bridgeport, Wisconsin, a Texas design change amendment and New Rochelle), two commemorative medals (Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee), a new three-cent coin and a proposal to strike commemorative medals in lieu of commemorative coins.

I found the medals vs. coins part of the Hearing the most interesting.

LW Hoffecker, representing the American Numismatic Association ( ANA) and its members as Chairman of the organization's Legislative Committee, was at the Hearing to support the continuation of the US commemorative coin program. He was asked about replacing commemorative coins with commemorative medals. From his reply:

"Medals are unpopular. A good many people will buy coins because they know they are always worth their face value...Very few collectors will collect medals."

While not my opinion, it is one that is difficult to argue against when speaking about many collectors.

Frank G Duffield, former ANA President and then-current editor of the ANA's The Numismatist magazine, was also in attendance. He joined the discussion of medals vs. coins by relating stories of the 1925 Norse-American Centennial medal and its sponsor:

"These people asked for a commemorative coin, and Congress declined to give them a bill, and they substituted a medal. The medal contained exactly the same amount of pure silver, and the same amount of alloy as a regular half dollar. They have been on the market since 1926, and they sold originally at a dollar a piece, and they are still selling at about $1.65.

"I want to call attention to this: At the present time, and since 1928, 2 years after the issue came out, there have been two thicknesses of the coin, but of the same size and dimensions. Now, one of these contained the same number of grains of silver as the United States half dollar, and they are on the market designated as thick and thin, and one does not contain the same amount of silver as a half dollar, which shows that someone outside the mint has issued either the thick one or the thin one. You might term it a fraud, because I can't give it any other name. Now they also issued in bronze with silver over it. So that to substitute a medal for a coin in this commemorative series would make it open to that objection. I do not think there would be anything to prevent someone from imitating that medal."

I was very surprised when I first read these statements. I thought, "How could the editor of The Numismatist, have such an erroneous view of the Norse-American medal?" It was issued in 1925 - not 1926 - and the US Mint struck both silver varieties - Thick and Thin - not just one. No fraud involved! Also, while the "Thick" variety of the medal could be found selling for $1.65 at the time, the "Thin" variety typically sold for more - often 3x to 5x more - as its mintage was less than 18% of the "Thick" variety (6,000 vs. 33,750).

Another case of "Skew the facts to fit your narrative!" Duffield's statements were not challenged by members of the Committee, so it appears they were accepted at face value.

Ultimately, in 1939, Congress passed legislation that reshaped the US commemorative coin series, but it never did acquiesce to Treasury Department preferences and pass legislation that forced the substitution of commemorative medals for commemorative coins.

1925 Norse-American Cenrennial Medal - Thick Variety
Commems-Collection-Classic:-1936-Hearing---Medals-Vs.-Coins Commems-Collection-Classic:-1936-Hearing---Medals-Vs.-Coins


For more of my stories about commemorative coins and medals, including more on regulating the classic-era US commemorative series, see: Commems Collection.



Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
Edited by commems
07/21/2024 10:19 pm
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Pertinax's Avatar
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 Posted 07/21/2024  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pertinax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What a stunningly attractive medallion!
Note: I prefer the term medallion for commemorative non-coin issues. That helps to distinguish them from prize medals, war medals

From a collector's viewpoint, there are other disadvantages:
a) There are few reference books listing medallions and none that list all issued medallions. Moreover, it's quite common to find a medallion and not be able to find out anything about it.

b) Although it's possible to collect by designer, you can only do that if you know who the designer is, and if you can find other medallions by the same designer.

c) Some collectors collect thematically, but it's a lot more difficult to find medallions on a specific theme than to find coins or stamps.

I didn't know that grading companies slab or grade medallions - is there a list of those that have been slabbed or a list that they're willing to slab?
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commems's Avatar
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 Posted 07/21/2024  1:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I didn't know that grading companies slab or grade medallions - is there a list of those that have been slabbed or a list that they're willing to slab?

PCGS and NGC both grade certain medals. The web site for each lists the medals accepted.

ANACS also grades certain medals - check their site.

I've also seen medals in the holders of other companies such as ICG and SEGS.

Basically, many medals are now accepted by one grading company or another.



Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 07/21/2024  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fascinating topic!


Quote:
"Medals are unpopular. A good many people will buy coins because they know they are always worth their face value...Very few collectors will collect medals." While not my opinion, it is one that is difficult to argue against when speaking about many collectors.
Well, you certainly did a good job getting me to accept medals as a valid collectible in our hobby!


Quote:
Note: I prefer the term medallion for commemorative non-coin issues. That helps to distinguish them from prize medals, war medals
Interesting. I have always treated the terms as synonyms—medal is short for medallion. That being said, one difference I recall being given is size:

Quote:
I've heard several technical differences between "medal" and "medallion", but in practice, those two words are interchangeable. One such distinction is that "medals" are smaller, while "medallions" are larger.
Source: http://goccf.com/t/61515#482047
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
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 Posted 07/21/2024  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Another Great Topic COMMEMS, Thanks Again....

We All know The 1930's were Very Explosive for Some of The Most Classic Commemorative Coins, in The Series.......




Medals Have Not Always been a Very Strong Consistent part of My Collections.

Now-A-Days is Another Story, Love Medals. Back in Younger Days, I Collected Some Medals Commemorating Battles of the American Revolution, 1973. ......

Love The Fact , These Hold in Your Hand Coins were Very Well Depicted, Dated Historic American Events......A Very Sweet Set from The United States Mint......
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 07/21/2024  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of my favorite obverse images - an early superhero.
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commems's Avatar
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 Posted 07/21/2024  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What a stunningly attractive medallion!


Quote:
One of my favorite obverse images - an early superhero.

And neither the obverse nor reverse design has anything to do with the immigration centennial being commemorated. Both designs are there to instill thoughts of vikings - a very popular theme!


Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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Marv65's Avatar
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 Posted 07/22/2024  12:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marv65 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! That is a great looking medal.
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nickelsearcher's Avatar
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 Posted 07/22/2024  06:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO the Senate subcommittee missed the opportunity in this 1936 meeting to stop the overexposure of the commemorative coin market.

Which directly profited folks like LW Hoffecker.


Quote:
Note: I prefer the term medallion for commemorative non-coin issues.


This view puts you in a small minority of collectors. I would be confused by your term if you had not been here to explain it.
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
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