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Very Disappointing Experience On My First Major (Near $7k) Auction Purchase - Advice Needed!

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NJcoppers's Avatar
United States
184 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2024  08:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJcoppers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Hello NJcoppers! Have you heard back from HA? Very curious to know their reply!


Have not heard back yet. Based on what I was able to dig up on this coin and coins of the same variety, I do not have high hopes of HA being shocked at their own lacking description. It seems to vary based on who is tasked to manage the coin from HA on their auction. Do not know if the seller submits the provenance and HA goes with that, or how much effort they put into it.

In my case, HA can verify 100% if my coin was sold by the same seller who purchased it in Aug 2024 on their auction. If yes, then that person is the one who broke out the slab and sold it re-graded in Nov 2024 on HA without disclosing.

I just purchased (shipped) the new 2024 SHI (SIboni/Howes/ish) NJ Coppers 440 pages supplement that updates their original 2103 ground-breaking award winning reference book to current stats. I wanted to see what their latest stats and provenance are for this Maris 62-q variety. I managed to trace back all three currently known (to me) 2024 MS61s to their 2013 reference book. Two of these were AUs previously. And hope to find out more about the "Anton" GEM sample and if that coin is the same coin as the highest graded sample for this variety, a PCGS MS63BN.
Edited by NJcoppers
12/07/2024 08:28 am
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2024  09:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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I am asking for inputs to my question, did not lay any blame on PCGS nor NGC. Let me state again my question: does the seller or HA has a responsibility for accurate provenance (i.e. provide an accurate statement and conduct reasonable research) knowing that it can greatly affect the value of a coin?


If you read the terms and conditions, I suspect you will find they have no such responsibility. They should disclose what is known and what they were told, but the kind of research you did isn't routine for low-value coins.

https://www.ha.com/c/ref/terms-and-...x?view=terms


Quote:
Cataloging, Warranties, and Disclaimers:
38. NO WARRANTY, WHETHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, IS MADE WITH RESPECT TO ANY DESCRIPTION CONTAINED IN THIS AUCTION OR ANY SECOND OPINE. Any description of merchandise or second opine contained in this Auction is for the sole purpose of identifying merchandise for those Bidders who do not have the opportunity to view merchandise prior to bidding, and no description of merchandise has been made part of the basis of the bargain or has created any express warranty that merchandise would conform to any description made by Auctioneer. Color variations can be expected in any electronic or printed imaging, and are not grounds for the return of any lot. NOTE: Auctioneer, in specified auction venues, e.g. Fine Art, may have express written warranties and Bidder is referred to those specific
terms and conditions.

-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Valued Member
NJcoppers's Avatar
United States
184 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2024  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJcoppers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tracked down the provenance of this highest TPG graded 62-q MS63BN. Found it in the new 2024 SHI (Siboni/Howes/Ish) supplement. It was an "AU+" in its former life.

Zoomed photo: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin...-q-bn/767840

Very-Disappointing-Experience-On-My-First-Major-Near-$7k-Auction-Purchase---Advice-Needed!

Here is the PCGS MS63 that was identified as an "AU+" in the new 2024 SHI supplement. It was attributed to Wrubel and was the #3 highest coin on the supplement's list. Clearly, it's now a PCGS MS63.

I believe that this is the highest graded Maris 62-q TPG coin now, since the #1 (and currently only GEM listed specimen) attributed to Siboni/Parmellee/Bushnell is graded as NGC MS61.

Here are the identifying marks that confirm that this is the PCGS MS63BN coin. The entire top reverse is off center.

Very-Disappointing-Experience-On-My-First-Major-Near-$7k-Auction-Purchase---Advice-Needed!


Very-Disappointing-Experience-On-My-First-Major-Near-$7k-Auction-Purchase---Advice-Needed!
Edited by NJcoppers
12/11/2024 4:30 pm
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NJcoppers's Avatar
United States
184 Posts
 Posted 12/12/2024  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJcoppers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Finally the coin shipped today from HA. For $45 I would have expected at least Fedex, UPS, or Signature confirmation and not plain regular USPS priority mail. Irresponsible...
Valued Member
NJcoppers's Avatar
United States
184 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2024  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJcoppers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Received the coin via USPS signature confirmation. Still nothing back from HA about my auction description complaint.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 01/18/2025  01:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add adam126402 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NJC, From reading and looking at the comparative coins, I think you made the right decision and will be happy with it. I imagine as some time passed coupled with your research, that your mind settled on the fact that it is a fabulous coin for the price! If you ever hear back from HA, please share.
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NJcoppers's Avatar
United States
184 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2025  9:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJcoppers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you @adam126402 Have not hard back from HA and not expecting it anymore...quite unprofessional. At least they could have told me to pound sand and not promise to get back to me.

I am fine with the coin. I am thinking about sending the traced updates in regards to this variety to Siboni/Howes/Ish folks. Their 2024 supplement is not up to date as far as this variety. The coins I traced back can be identified 100% from their publicly available sales records and TPG photos. Their new grades significantly re-shuffles the top rankings.
Edited by NJcoppers
01/18/2025 9:52 pm
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