Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics Shop CCF Members on eBay! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Who Is "R. Sage"? Counterstamped Matron Head Large Cent

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 375Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2516 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2026  12:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Counterstamp is not in Brunk, and I've looked online and didn't find a similar counterstamp. The host coin is a 1816-1836 type large cent. It has a 30 degree CCW rotation, which is not uncommon in early large cents of this type. Is this a known countermark and who is this R. Sage?

Who-Is-
Who-Is-

Quick searching finds one contemporary R. Sage, who "was an American financier, railroad executive and Whig politician from New York, who became one of the richest Americans of all time", except the coin appears to be a few years too early for him:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Sage
Pillar of the Community
United States
1484 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2026  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add halfamind to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You may have nailed it with Russell Sage. This circa 1830s coin would have still been circulating when his political career reached its zenith in the 1850s.
Pillar of the Community
ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4415 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2026  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This maverick c/s is gonna be a tough one to attribute, methinks. It's unlisted by Rulau, too. In checking my routine sources, I found no leads.

While the surname, Sage, isn't a common one like Smith, it's not rare, like Zirklebach. Names with two or more initials tend to be somewhat easier to attribute. Finding another specimen with a stamped town, address, product, patent date or the like would sure help. Ideally, finding a matching stamped product, likely made of metal, would also help.

Some c/s's have taken me more than ten years to attribute. I'd venture that there are far more unlisted than listed c/s's out there. Of the now 3,000 c/s's in my collection, over 2,000 of them exist in numbers of twenty or less specimens. Many are unique, too, often carried as personal cards or ID's by masonic members.


Quote:
You may have nailed it with Russell Sage. This circa 1830s coin would have still been circulating when his political career reached its zenith in the 1850s.


@halfamind ... What other details do you have on Russell Sage ... whereabouts, occupation, etc.?
Edited by ExoGuy
05/27/2026 6:45 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1484 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2026  7:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add halfamind to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ExoGuy: Russell Sage spent his early adulthood in Troy, NY, before being elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1852. Later in the 1850s he moved to New York City, following 4 years in Congress.
Moderator
Learn More...
Dearborn's Avatar
United States
94636 Posts
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
187446 Posts
Pillar of the Community
Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2516 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2026  10:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@halfamind: Do you know how long copper coins of that era circulated for? It's normal for our modern-day pocket change to circulate for 20-40 years and still look decent, but the old stuff appears to be worn down worse. Did the US Mint back then have a program to recover worn-down coinage and "recycle" the metal? That would give insight on the statistics.

@ ExoGuy: What is the Rulau book you are referencing? I am aware that he did US Tokens, but not that he did counterstamps too.

When was the heyday of counterstamping coins? Outside of Lincoln cents, I seem to more commonly encounter them on large coppers of the first half of the 19th century, but my observation may be right or wrong.

Wikipedia link for Russell Sage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Sage
1911 Encyclopedia Britannica text: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911...age,_Russell
Not much is said about his political career; I would assume it was fairly dull compared to his later financial career.

I figured this wouldn't be an easy one to attribute due to the lack of other identifying information.
For the same reason, to me it seems unlikely that this would have been a name card or advertising piece, as it neglects to mention pertinent details, such as: his political affiliation, when and where to vote for him and in what capacity, or an address (unless it really is a very poorly executed advertising piece). Although assuming that does leave open the possibility that this is an unfinished piece.
Besides, would a politician not rather use a shiny new coin instead of random old ones? Excepting if the date has some sort of special significance--unfortunately, too far gone to identify now.

Any ideas what this might used for? Spitballing random ideas out here. Carried around by an ardent fanatic as a badge of honour? A "gift" for a vote? Russell Sage's personal lucky penny, which for some weird reason he stamped with his own name? A sentimental memento to/from a different R. Sage?
Pillar of the Community
ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4415 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2026  12:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@ ExoGuy: What is the Rulau book you are referencing?


Standard Catalogue of United States Tokens 1700-1900


Quote:
When was the heyday of counterstamping coins?


The decade of the 1850's. There are a great many counterstamps that predate 1850, but the numbers then swelled. The fad virtually died during the war years when circulating coins were being hoarded. Emergency "currency" in the form of paper scrip, merchant tokens, encased postage, etc. dominated common trade.

Yes, large cents were the principal targets for c/s's. My collection reflects this, as over 1,300 of my 3,000 pieces are hosted on large cents. This makes sense, given their large size and affordability.

One certainly can't go on the assumption that this c/s is that of THE Russell Sage, politician. There were literally a hundred or more "R. Sages" on this continent (Canada included!) during the mid 1800's (Russell, Robert, Richard, Roland, etc ...).

To weigh the possibilities, I look at what the c/s tells us. In comparison to most c/s's, the font is small, suggesting that it was possibly created to be applied to a smaller product or part of a larger product. Most c/s'ers were masons, many of whom worked with metal ... toolmakers, smiths, patentees. I search for occupational and directory listings along those lines and develop a list of potential "suspects."

Another consideration to make when only one c/s'd coin is known is that the host was simply chosen as a piece of metal, upon which to test a stamp. In other words, there may have been NO commercial intent to create this so-called coin-turned-token. That said, I suspect this MAY NOT have been been the case with this R. SAGE c/s. I would note the possibly targeted, cartoon-like placement of this c/s in the obverse field; this, as if Lady Liberty is announcing Sage's name. Still, this could be coincidental or a punny intent by the stamp's creator. While speculation about c/s's can be frustrating, I personally find it intriguing.

Many folks felt that damaged/stamped coins like this host were worthless, having no value as such. Consequently, many were discarded back when. I have a number of c/s'd "ground-finds" in my collection ... typically so, these early coppers.

Finally, as for the use of this Sage c/s, my overall suspicion is that it was likely used as a calling card of sorts to introduce oneself to a fellow mason. This c/s is clesrly the product of a singlr, prepared punch, created by a skilled metal worker; this, as opposed to having been applied by single letter punches.
Edited by ExoGuy
05/28/2026 12:59 pm
Pillar of the Community
Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2516 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2026  4:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you ExoGuy. You're right, I shouldn't be assuming this is THE Russell Sage, especially when this is very unlikely to have been a politician's advertising piece. Lots of good info and observations that I wouldn't have recognised. I'll take a look at the Rulau tokens book when I get a chance.

What is the giveaway that this was done in a single punch instead of single letter punches? I take it that an amateur would not have the skill to put together a prepared single punch. Is it the evenness and the levelness of the letters, less distortion of the host coin?

I'm not likely to research a possible list of all R. Sages in North America, at least for now, but you have me intrigued... Where can I read more about these types of Masonic calling cards?
Pillar of the Community
ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4415 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2026  08:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Altaira ... Simply google "masonic tokens" to learn about them. It appears to me that the later tokens were precipitated by altered or c/s'd large cents; this, leading to the wholesale manufacture of "masonic pennies." Rich Hartzog produced a good token book on all manner of exonumia some thirty-plus years ago.

Yes, the c/s's produced with single-letter punches typically illustrate misaligned and poorly-spaced letters. One of the biggest problems with the c/s books is that many of the reported issues were not therein pictured. Thus, present day collectors cannot always be assured that they have have the same issue recorded by Brunk. Online auction archives like Heritage, Stack's, etc. do help compensate, yet their attributions may be incorrect at times.

Given the paucity of info about c/s's at large, seriously collecting them is a challenge. That said, it's long been what attracts me to this genre ... the opportunity to explore uncharted waters, so to speak. Indeed, one of my better attributions was the 1874 dated SAGE'S CANDY COIN c/s's (see google). Surname aside, there's likely no direct connection to the subject coin.
Edited by ExoGuy
05/29/2026 08:55 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1484 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2026  3:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add halfamind to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Altaira — U.S. Large cents, which had generally circulated freely for decades, disappeared from circulation soon after the large-scale transition to small (Flying Eagle) cents occurred in 1857. In less than a decade there had been more small (Flying Eagle, Indian Head) cents produced than the entire run (1793-1857) run of about 157 million large cents.
Edited by halfamind
05/29/2026 3:44 pm
Pillar of the Community
Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2516 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2026  5:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ExoGuy: Lots of good info, thank you. I did come across Sage's Candy Coin while searching for this one. That was your attribution? Neat.

Minted Masonic "pennies" and tokens I am aware of--these are the wholesale manufacture ones you speak of? As this counterstamped one new to me, I'll put this aside for a while until I can research it a bit more.

@halfamind: That's a quick transition. Must be a big push for the small cents' adoption, or the large cents got hoarded based on the quantity still surviving.
Pillar of the Community
ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4415 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2026  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That was your attribution?


Yes, Altaira. The fact that all of those Sage's Candy Coin pieces were dated 1874 really helped me narrow down my searches of national news stories. I deduced that such a public outpouring of c/s'd coins likely made local news somewhere. It did, in Paterson, NJ.

Attributions by occupation have proven far easier ... the silversmiths, gunsmiths, toolmakers, pen makers, etc. Their marked products are today's antiques that often host matching stamps.

I've posted many of my findings on the CCF. Collectors really need to see the pics of these early c/s's. The great majority of c/s's listed by Brunk and Rulau lack pics. So, I'm trying, with my modest effort, to compensate for that shortcoming.
Pillar of the Community
Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2516 Posts
 Posted Yesterday   1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great pointers of what to look for and how to research things. Yes, I do wish old catalogues come with images too, but we make do with what we have. Thank you so much, and best of luck with your endeavours!
  Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 375Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.34 seconds to rattle this change. Forums