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1944 No P Jefferson Nickel - Counterfeit ?

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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2009  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The were struck looking worn. The dies he used were designed from circulated coins.


Quote:
for one henning did it on his own not in a large production shop and he did a Nickel
the man had to be nuts



Years ago, I recall the story being that Henning made 50,000 of these and the Secret service confiscated about 25,000 of them. Those that we find were put into circulation by Henning.
It is also said he dumped the others in the Schuylkill River someplace in PA.

Now the figures has changed and the river may be different, or there may also be some in the Copper Creek in New Jersey but why make a counterfeit nickel?
The low figures were 50,000 which would equal $2,500 which in the 1940's was a substantial amount of money.

Now it is unknown how many he actually did make and there are at least 5 dates counterfeited.


Quote:
It is estimated that more than 100,000 of Henning's nickels reached circulation. Henning dumped another 200,000 nickels in Copper Creek, New Jersey, of which only 14,000 were recovered. Another 200,000 are thought to have been dumped in the Schuylkill River.


My math says he made a half million nickels from our link quote.
That makes a total of $25,000 for the year 1954 which is a heck of a lot of money back then as well.

Using an inflation calculator I got this information.


What cost $25000 in 1954 would cost $198,067.45 in 2008. So his little enterprise was worth almost $200,000.00 of our dollars back in those days.
Edited by TNG
09/04/2009 10:58 am
Rest in Peace
pyrbob's Avatar
United States
1943 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2009  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow what a great find! The other dates Henning claimed to have on his nickels were 1939, 1946, 1947, 1953 and one other date he didn't specify. He claimed to have made 6 obverse dies and 6 reverse dies. So not all of the reverse dies had the hole in the R. Your coin is the one with the hole. I do have a 1939 with the hole in the R that I feel is a Henning. I posted a photo of it (with Wheezy's help) in an earlier post. If you do a search you should be able to find it.

The point was made in an earlier post about how we compain about Chinese counterfeits but yet buy Henning counterfeits. I feel there is a big difference between the two. Henning made his counterfeits to pass off as a 5 cent piece in regular commerce just like we do with a genuine nickel. I feel this makes his counterfeit a part of the history of our country's coinage. There are plenty of other counterfeit items such as colonial coins, bust half dollars, obsolete paper money and national banknotes just to name a few that fall into this catagory of contemporary couterfeits. The couterfeits such as the Chinese counterfeits are specifically intended for the collecting community and in my opinion are not directly tied to our country's coinage. To me, this difference is major. I collect coins and paper money with a strong interest in the history behind them and I feel the contemporary counterfeits such as the Henning nickels belong in this history. I can understand others distaste for counterfeits, especially with the Chinese counterfeits. But I think there are collectables in counterfeits.
Bedrock of the Community
DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2009  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The low figures were 50,000 which would equal $2,500 which in the 1940's was a substantial amount of money.

If I were Henning back then, I probably would have made dimes. Few people take a close look at dimes, they require smaller dies, and they're worth twice a nickel.
Valued Member
Coin_Guy's Avatar
United States
143 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2009  02:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coin_Guy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't understand why someone would go through all of the trouble to counterfeit such a small denomination? Any info?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2009  10:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think to make fake dimes in such a large number, they would have easily been detected unless they were made of silver blanks which would not have been a worthwhile venture.
The nickel blanks he used, I don't exactly know the composition, but they did pass easily and still do today as a normal nickel.
So I would guess he thought it out pretty good.
I'd like to know where he got the blanks and what they are made of.
I think "Hennings" are 5.2 grams in weight and the normal nickel is 5 grams. I am not sure about that.
Edited by TNG
09/07/2009 10:52 am
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2009  12:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
why is it that we all complain about Chinese counterfeit coins but then we turn around and pay a premium for a Henning nickel?

Because there is often a collector demand for contemporary counterfeits. They were made to circulate as money which gives them a bit of a story, and they were made for just a brief time an are no longer made. The Chinese counterfeits and other counterfeit key dates are made to try and rip off collectors and more can be made at any time.


Quote:
If I were Henning back then, I probably would have made dimes. Few people take a close look at dimes, they require smaller dies, and they're worth twice a nickel.

But the silver blanks needed would also cost more than twice what the nickel blanks did. In fact the dime blank would have had 7 cents worth of silver in it compared to about Two Cents or less worth of metal in the nickel blank. So the profit margin per coin was the same, about Three Cents less other expenses. But that would mean about thirty cents for every dollar face value in dimes, but sixty cents for every dollar face value in nickels. So the nickels would be more profitable.


Quote:
I don't understand why someone would go through all of the trouble to counterfeit such a small denomination? Any info?

To "fly under the radar" the theory being that the lower the denomination the less likely people are to look at it and notice a counterfeit, and in the coins it would tend to return the most profit per dollar in face value. Henning also counterfeited five dollar notes but he wasn't very good at it.
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