VAMs. Where Is The Hobby Headed?

Agreed.

It wasn't until last year that I found out what the phrase 'knuckle dragging' meant. I had to consult some of my firefighting friends on that one. it is interesting you use that phrase.
Zee, I was trying to explain, not condone the condescension and hostility I have seen in the hobby. I have seen it expressed at even one of the men who has over a two million dollar Morgan dollar set because he apparently isn't a member of 'the' clique. When I was younger living in Great Britain, I saw first hand the same smugness and condescension expressed on a vast array of topics. In rereading what I had written, I omitted a word.
The word is perceived. The sentence should have read: You couple this with an egocentric obsessive compulsive personality with a (perceived )higher than average IQ and you get at times when asking questions the cold shoulder treatment or worse, you get condescension and hostility.

Oops.

When I first started with vams I was impressed someone took the time to identify all of the different die pairs. What an undertaking! I was especially impressed with the top 100 list of Morgan dollars. I knew several of these varieties, but had no idea there were so many. Vamming seemed natural to me as I liked all of the different varieties.
What I was unprepared for was the dawning realization that not all of the pick up points (pups) were published with these publications. For example: The 1883-P sextupled stars has on the reverse a most distinctive pick up point that can been seen from a dealer's case. On the reverse, midway up to the letter D of D-O-L-L-A-R there is a prominent die crack that extends left of the letter D for about a half inch that goes to the rim. I don't own one of these, but had the good fortune to see a mint state example at lunch where I saw this die crack.
Was this an unintended omission? Or was this intentional? If so why?

The trouble, Ozland, is that there are yet too few here at CCF for the (in all cases, correct and appropriate) information you're presenting to have enough relevance to generate discussion.

I emphasize, "yet." Everything you, and I, and others are doing here works towards the day when this will no longer be true.

As a counterpoint: keep in mind, this thing called "numismatics" lends itself to easy factual codification, but whether or not the object of your research has any "value" is and always be subjective. I could build a staggering set of 3CN Proofs for far less money than I could build a complete set of 1878-P 8TF's. Yes, rarity plays a role but demand plays a far more important one. Desirability is always a subjective decision on the part of the buyer.

Are these prices sustainable? Maybe. That's up to people like you and me. Not the dealers (they're just selling to whomever sees their wares). Not the researchers (they may sell, but they lack the time to become true dealers). The market will be sustained by new VAMmers.

It has, I believe, reached saturation at the moment. Only the creation of new enthusiasts keep the whole system strong into the future, and we don't have to set our goal into the "thousands" for it to be effective. There is a critical mass in many reactions which makes it sustainable on its' own, and I firmly believe that VAMming has such a critical mass.

Are sustained high prices appropriate, or desirable? Yes, and yes. With the understanding that high prices should be a function of both scarcity and demand, and an expectation that the progress of research will more clearly define true "scarcity." Also imperative is the need to educate - an informed collector is a more committed collector. We don't sell this stuff here at CCF. We don't research it (at least, not at the level required to honestly advance the hobby). What we do here is most clearly defined at the top left of this, and every, page on the site:




66 times - not counting this post - people have chosen to reply in this thread. It has been read 653 times. Your words are reaching a multiple of the number of people who have chosen to reply. Yes, many of these reads are the same few who also reply, but consider the ones who read but don't post. There are *many* of them. We know that. It's why we're here, and why I hope you'll continue talking even if you think the auditorium is empty.

The ones who will advance our common goal are the ones you haven't seen yet.

One of the thorny issues to sort through is to recognize that there is a self serving element that promotes vams. Recognizing and understanding that dynamic will save the unwary collector money. I discussed earlier the dealer/collector symbiosis in the hobby. I did not discuss the dealer/collectors who help drive the hobby. Anytime I see a recommended list (top 100, hot 50, hit list 40, top 50, top 30) I am always curious to know how the list came about and the dynamics that drove it. I was fortunate in that the newest list (hit list 40) was discussed many times at several meetings for input by the people that were present. The idea of the hit list 40 was to bring awareness to many vams not previously listed and by extension chased after. It was hoped the major third party grading companies would add these to their list of vams currently being attributed.
ANACS currently does all vams. Their attributor is John Roberts.
PCGS added the hit list 40 to their list of vams to be attributed. Their attributor is Mike Faraone.
I do not know the name of the attributors at SEGS, ICG or NGC.
The goal obviously is to bring vams in to mainstream collecting. There are many who have devoted a lot of their time (years) and energy into this. But some of these same people are dealers. How much of the premise for collecting vams is accurate? How much is hype? How much is over hyped? One coin in particular I consider noncollectable and it is on the list. The coin is a 1921-D 1X. How did it get on the list? The coin belongs to Jeff Oxman, one of the two authors of the top 100 vams, the VAM keys. He is and has been a tireless supporter of vams since it's inception. The idea of putting it on the list was to bring awareness to it and have others look for it. While I believe the intent to include this is benign I find the inclusion of this more than a bit self serving. A 1897-O VAM 6A would have been a worthy candidate as there are only four known. (and no I don't own one) It was discovered by Dr. Michael Fey PHD, the other author of the VAM keys. But understand this, when these coins make these lists and by extension can now be listed in a registry set, demand increases for the coin and the price of the coin increases exponentially.

So for the new VAM collector entering the hobby, coins in the top 100, hot 50, hit list 40 ( Morgan dollars)and top 50 ( Peace dollars)seem a natural place to start. But how many sets can reasonably be completed? This is a very difficult question to answer.
Vams may indeed be the future of collecting, but.........

As far as I know, there has been only 1 1921-D VAM 1X located and it was included in the hit list 40.
It is just another maddening contradiction that you find in the hobby. Only one? Logic dictates until others are (presumably) found (possible but not probable) only one person can complete the hit list 40 set. Not allowing collectors to complete a set, even if only a few can, isn't the way to expand the hobby. Even if it was a sop given to a great man who has done everything possible to promote the hobby, it's inclusion in the list is (I believe) a contradiction in terms.

How many would ever try to complete a set that if you knew from the outset, you could not ever hope to complete due to the fact you would always come up one coin short?

How many would attempt to put a puzzle together if they knew from the start it was missing a piece?
It is counter intuitive.

Sorry Terry, I use the term 'knuckle dragger' far too loosely and far more often than I should. I apologize.