Peace Dollars

The most beautiful design? She looks like she is Drooling for crying out loud! I bet it's the only coin with lady liberty's mouth open!

Remmy, buddy, a few last things before I take my leave of this thread:

As far as which die was the upper die being stated in the "mint records" as you call it, if it is, it hasn't been found yet. As far as it being stated in books, I don't doubt that, I also don't doubt that whoever said such a thing either just made it up or repeated it from something that he/she had read or heard from someone else who had done the same.

Now, although it is not attested to yet through researched documents at the National Archives, I do think that indeed the reverse die was used as the upper die on at least some Peace dollars based on rim markings that I have noticed on a few Peace dollars. The markings appear to coincide with the collar teeth. The teeth marks (when found) are always only on the reverse rim of the coin. This would be compatible with the possible 1/32" die variation of the upper die within the die chamber. That is the sort of thing that I base my beliefs on, not some garbage that someone else either said or put to print.

As far as die breaks filling, mint employees would not have taken on such an idiotic endeavor unless they were stupid enough to think that this grade of annealed steel could be patched with serviceability duration beyond one strike. Annealing requires that the material be created as a whole, the molecular adhesion of two parts is not possible after the fact. As far as silver/copper planchet metal being lodged into a break, and remaining there, is of the same rationale. If this was even remotely possible, this effect in device lettering would be such an issue that coins could not be struck at all. A break becomes a device in a die field, not unlike any other, silver does not adhere to the steel die. Your mentor's pipe dream of die state progression based on this fantasy is not at all plausible. not at all.

As far as striking pressure goes, again these mint records are mentioned. Just what are these "mint records"? The documents in the National Archives are most often dated, and within the same year, documents in the archives state a pressure of a certain tonnage, while the Annual Mint Director's Report claims a pressure of 30 tons difference. (One was 150 tons, one was 120 tons, I do not remember which was which).....What is a person supposed to believe? Consider that the Mint Director was a cabinet appointed position. This mint director in most instances (other than Linderman as a prime exception) was a politician who knew very little of the process of making coins. Again, if a person assumes knowledge based on what he/she reads in a book or some internet site, well, 'knowledge' then, is a very subjective word.






Remmy..... buddy, think about what you are saying.....A different physical law for Peace than Morgan? Let me let you in on a little known secret.....ALL clashing transfers as incuse on ALL dies, whether they be Peace, Morgan, LHC, British crowns, Japanese yen, it doesn't matter, a clash will cause a dent, not a swelling. Clash marks are the result of two die FIELDS colliding (with one of those fields located at a device drop off).
I think what may be confusing you is that in most cases, the lettering on a coin is raised: Incuse on the die, which means that the field drops off into the device. In the case of the word LIBERTY on the obverse headband of a Morgan, the word LIBERTY is not a device, (it is in actuality), the field.....the headband surrounding LIBERTY is the device and therefor, the letters (field) drop off into the headband. This is why clashed letter transfer can be far more pronounced with LIBERTY than it can be with any letters from IN GOD WE TRUST. Simple physics pal.....Nevertheless, a clash is a clash, and the VAM rule of 'the clash has to be a letter clash to qualify for clash status' rather than a wing clash or a wreath or hair clash, is just another one of those silly rules that makes vamming difficult and unappealing to newcomers.

I wanted this thread to evolve into a picture posting thread. as most folks have a few Peace dollars, or at least a type specimen. Instead, it has turned into something that is reminiscent of something displayed on other sites. My fault probably, and I am sorry for it.

What I was referring to Dave, was the feelings that overcome me when I get into this sort of thread. I like to be silly and crack jokes and be around silly folks far more than I do like to be serious. I also like discussion, I like to read discussion. I say that I do not like debate, although deep inside me, I guess that I really do, as I seem to generate it. The problem with this is my self control is out of control and I become combative far too easily. I had experienced this personality flaw of mine at other sites, and notice it rearing its ugly head here as well. That is what I am sorry for.

Maybe ugly to you (I don't really see how though), but I think that she is very pretty. My favorite year for these things, and nice detail of the feathers on the reverse of your coin. Do you have other Peace? I would post a Peace picture, but I don't own a Peace coin. Thanks very much for posting yours though.

Okay, good one....you had me going there....I was wondering to myself, 'What kind of standards does 'this' guy have?' The strike caught my eye right off the bat. Very nice indeed. You got it cheaply 'eh? I am not going for that too...Heh, heh.

I too think Francisci's design is nicer and more representative of the woman of the "20s" than the "Rubenesk" Morgan. But I wish it could have been stuck properly.

As to Lady Liberty's mouth agape; I seem to remember reading somewhere that Francisci used his wife as his model. That explains everything, since when has YOUR wife stopped yelling at you?

I thought the same thing and even thought that Francisci copied the design from Saint Gaudens. I'll bet someone at the mint thought the same also. Looked it up again just to verify, my source was from Breen's Complete Encyclopedia of US and Colonial Coins. Teresa Francisci was just 23 when he used her as the model for his design.

I don't remember reading if Francisci was of the "St. Gaudens" school. I do believe that the "school" had a lasting affect on coin design. I still think some of the most handsome coins come from this era.

If you think about it, both artists were affected by the Art Nouveau movement. The move to more slender and sensual images of women were creeping into coinage all over the world. The French Mint fully embraced the movement and many of their depictions of Liberty were very much like Fancisci and Saint Gaudens offering.

Just my opinion, but if you really look at the images on the coins, there are definite differences in the noes, eye, mouth, and jaw. They're subtle, but they're there.