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 Replies: 136 / Views: 10,871 |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
morgans dad, I'm reading this and posting from my Droid; I reserve the right to change my opinion when I get home and look at the coin on a 26" screen instead of a 4".
biokemist's 1901 is a *stupid* nice, Mint State New Orleans Morgan. I do not base this on obvious observable features but upon my subjective impression of the coin. I am a poor candidate for factual diagnoses of a coin, because I grade subjectively and subconsciously. I feel the chatter is consistent with non-circulation contact; I feel the color is original. It's a low-end 63, so-graded due to significant eye appeal.
I will re-addres this opinion when I get home and look at it on a big monitor, but I do not expect my opinion to change.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
MorgansDad....The 1901-O mintage is considered a poorly struck coin. A lot of this is due to the high mintage numbers. Dies were used until the high points had worn away. It is also considered a heavily bagmarked coin....In my eyes I see a very nice 63 and could it possibly go 64....
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Quote:
The 1901-O mintage is considered a poorly struck coin. A lot of this is due to the high mintage numbers. Dies were used until the high points had worn away You might want to rethink that one 1893...  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
LOL, I knew that 1901-O would be a perfect coin for this thread I am 100% certain that this coin was never circulated but of course, I have the benefit of once having this coin in my possession. Luster on the high points is unbroken and consistent with a weak strike. One thing this coin does not have is strong cartwheel luster and the fields have no reflectivity but the luster is very soft and satiny. The lower jaw has fairly significant bag scuffing and there are some small but heavy bagmarks underneath both eagle wings. The dark spots above the beak and on the right wing are carbon spots, not toning. For the benefit of all readers, here are the ANA grading standards(6th Ed.) for Morgan Dollars- MS-64contact marks- may have light, scattered marks; a few may be in prime focal areas hairlines- may have a few scattered or small patch in secondary areas luster- may be original or slightly impaired eye appeal- pleasing MS-63contact marks- may have distracting marks in prime focal areas hairlines- may have a few scattered or small patch in secondary areas luster- may be original or slightly impaired eye appeal- rather attractive MS-62contact marks- may have distracting marks in prime focal and/or secondary areas hairlines- may have a few scattered to a noticeable patch luster- may be original or impaired eye appeal- generally acceptable |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
This is one of the main points that strike into the heart of subjective grading....From this discussion we have brought about a number of important things, and one of the many reasons why TPG's are in business... Lessons learned: (1)While there is an ANA standard the average person tries to learn and understand, it can not be applied to EVERY YEAR and EVERY MINT MARK... (2)While comparing different years and mint mark, It is apparent that there is strike strenghts and weaknesses issues that effect the way those coins will be graded... (3) That all of these coins show some small form of wear...Not enough to truly be considered Circulated. yet there is some wear... (Grading does not have a level field.... Keeping this in mind, lets NOW compare slabbed coins of the SAME YEAR AND MM ONLY, to gain some insight of what are the determining factors for assigning grades........After that we can move to Normally WELL struck coins to Known WEAK strike years... \ LETS POST NO MORE THAN 3 COINS, so every one can STAY ON TRACK.... WHO will be first.... NO 1881-s series at this time please.... |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5639 Posts |
Thanks Dave, You state, " I do not base this on obvious observable features but upon my subjective impression of the coin." With ALL due respect, 'what does that mean', LOL... You also say, " I am a poor candidate for factual diagnoses of a coin, because I grade subjectively and subconsciously." I again, do NOT understand this comment, please explain. Dave, You also stated in your earlier post," Every Morgan must be evaluated independently based upon it's own characteristics" I am confused with the answer you have given here.  Edited by Morgans Dad
01/10/2011 01:36 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5639 Posts |
LOL, BIO, I am asking you, as you have the coin in hand, You are saying "this coin has and shows no wear at all", Is that your meaning behind the coin has NOT been circulated, Thanks for the shot in the arm on this topic, LOL, |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
Zeewool,
I don't think I need to reconsider my previous post... I've been grading and examining coins for 40+ years and as I stated I would even consider the coin to be misgraded 63 and possibly see a 64! I do not have the knowledge yet that a lot of folks do on VAMS but one thing I know is the Morgan dates and mints as striking, luster, bagmark/abrassion situation etc...And yeah ZEEWOOL 1901-O was generally a poorly struck coin with plenty of bags.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
A picture is worth a thousand words here is a PCGS AU-58 coin next to the MS-63 one. Differences are dramatic note how smooth the wear is on the 58 in the hair to ear and hair to face transition. On the MS-63, those edges are sharp and shelf like. On the AU-58, the wear is all nicely rounded. On the MS-63, the strike weakness is all high and flat. Luster on the AU-58 is also massively impaired:  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Just a side not...not to detour any ones ideas, but there were 210 dies made for New Orleans..Though most 1901-0's I have seen Have always been weakly struck...The OBV looks fantastic with slight wear and the prime areas WOW, but the REV is weakly struck also but shows wear....Standards people talk of today state "ANY WEAR" means circulation...And this is not true....but side tracking this Specific coin
I wish you to remember why this thread is in place. 'Its to bring out these facts......AND EXAMPLES such as this so we can talk about these issues and LEARN from them......Most you you here, have not just started collecting.......YOU HAVE vast years of experience...SO lets use it constructively to inform others of your knowledge...
Post 1884P......3 POSTER's so we can all stay together and learn......
Its not for us....That I ask us to stay on the same page...
WHo's first?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Thats the problem with time lapse.......Lets all get on the same page...
not that I disagree Fenton...BY EXTENDING the differences we can never find common ground...lets start by identifying commong ground.. a common year and same mint mark....
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
I am so sorry 1893S, I had no idea that you have been grading and examining coins for 40+ years..... That is considerably longer than I have been alive.
Based on all of that experience could you please explain how the the wearing down of the die field would cause a weak strike? It sounds rather counter-intuitive to me.
Edited by zeewool
01/10/2011 12:27 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5639 Posts |
1893-S,
If I am seeing your point correctly, you are saying the New Orleans Mint, which we all KNOW had struck a large portion of their coins with a central weakness on the coins, you are saying when the working dies were worn out from striking weak struck coins, the mint would change the dies?
I just do NOT see the common sense involved in this, could you please explain, also you have been grading coins as a profession, or like my self a collector in practice for 47+ years. The 1901-O, a fairly weak strike is typical for this issue although because of the large mintage, fully struck specimens can be located, luster is generally good. There is a tremendous difference between poorly struck and a weak strike. The entire reason for my posting this topic is as stated above, to grow the hobby with the ability to share the knowledge we as experienced collectors have and assist the other's that do not have the time, effort and ability some of us do.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Be that as it may be......Lets start another thread on die wear and its results, lets keep on track here...Grading. and how to. and let keep to the same year .....so we can form a basis among the many variables..
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5639 Posts |
Gene, I would like to hear YOUR opinion on the 1901-O do YOU feel the coin exhibits ANY wear?
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Posted 01/09/2011 9:23 pm
