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 Replies: 51 / Views: 4,771 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:
The government needs to quit chasing social security. That will be the #1 cause of government spending and it is entirely unsupportable as it currently stands. SS is a very large financial obligation, for sure, but it is not the biggest one that the feds have. That would be Medicare, which is easily more than twice the size of SS. Although government does not often demonstrate great ability, the demographic bulge in the US population aggravates this problem considerably. People are simply living longer these days and the younger folks are having fewer, if any, children. Over the past 30 or so years, some attention was paid to this via the Greenspan Commission and some other study groups but the time that was needed for a solution was squandered. Nobody wanted to make any changes to a system that was headed for failure. If they do something, problems might result. Not doing anything, however, guarantees that problems WILL occur. Apparently, that is OK so long as it is not "on their watch". Problems of this type are what we get when people get elected who are more concerned with getting re-elected than with the genuine welfare of the country. As a nation, we need to completely rethink the role of government in our lives and get to a sustainable budget. Government is simply too large and it is consuming the country. Taking $1 of every $4 produced in this country is not sustainable and MUST be changed. As with Greece, we can either do this ourselves or we can have it imposed upon us by our creditors. Either way, it WILL happen. :-/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I agree on your tax theory's and the post above. These figured heads do not seem to care if the ship sinks, as long as it is not on their watch, and they don't get blamed for it. And of course their cash flow is not affected in any way, to say less coming in then what they are used to making....
Edited by Silverhawk74
07/09/2011 3:14 pm
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Valued Member
175 Posts |
I read yesterday that if you count in SS and medicare into our national debt our debt is actually around $100 trillion. With those numbers we are in a black hole. If our government wanted to they could default our debt to the federal reserve and start printing their own money and start from the ground up. The constitution says we have the right to do so but of course I know this would never happen.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
"Neither a lender or borrower be". (Shakespeare)
He was a playwright, not a philosopher or an economist, but I reckon he is right, anyway.
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New Member
Greece
14 Posts |
Well, I don't think USA will ever come to the present position of Greece, even though your debt is not $10 trillion and our debt is $350 billion. That's because you produce and export. In Greece, we don't produce and export almost anything.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
To get an idea of comparatively how bad the Greek debt crisis is, you need to compare the total amount of debt divided by the population of the country.
A small amount of Google searching should reveal population numbers of both countries and the amount of Greek debt. I will do this exercise later on perhaps.
(Won't do it now, I'm watching the Tour De France!)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:
I read yesterday that if you count in SS and medicare into our national debt our debt is actually around $100 trillion. Various web sites out there show this number to be between $100-130T. It is an unimaginably HUGE number. I doubt that ANY politician actually grasps the magnitude of a number this size. Clearly not, else we would not now be in this position!  Quote:
If our government wanted to they could default our debt to the federal reserve and start printing their own money and start from the ground up. Yes, they probably could. But then, a default also includes US Treasury bonds too and MANY American citizens own them, either directly or through their retirement plan at work. If the US were to default, it would be many years before we could again borrow money at anything other than high interest rates. Not that this would necessarily be a bad thing. Living within our income is a financially sound idea, even if it is forced upon us. |
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Valued Member
175 Posts |
There is one politician that grasps it :). I dont think a default would be that bad and by not bad I mean it would give us a proper chance to actually recovery from this recession.
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New Member
Greece
14 Posts |
Even if you divide debt to population USA debt/person is higher than Greece.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
EdoReTora: Yes, you are quite right.
The debt per head in Greece is $27,700 per head of population.
The debt per head in America is $45,150 per head of population.
However, America has a higher income per head of population.
Which got me to thinking:
What is an economist's idea of national debt?
The answer is another question: What is the total gross domestic for one year as compared to the national debt?.
? What is the Gross Domestic Product? , you may ask.
That is the total value of goods and services provided by a country in one Year.
The debt to GDP ratio for Greece is about 1.45 to 1.
The debt to GDP ratio for America is about 1.00 to 1.
Why all the angxiety of the European economists about Greece? THEY are trying to protect the Euro. They don't want a domino effect into other European economies. Ultimately, THAT would affect the United States, who has her own problems already.
Curiously, I have never studied economics, even in early high school, so you can hardly call me an expert!
What is an expert? THAT is a drip under pressure! That's me!
But I am still no expert on economics.
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New Member
Greece
14 Posts |
You have average higher income in USA but if you look closely that goes for some states. For example, California has a lot better economy than, lets say, South Dacota.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I watched an episode from South Park 2009, and Randy Marsh took his son Stan to the bank to put his first hundred bucks in to invest, and the banker said....
"Sure will take that hundred and turn it into something for ya, will take that hundred, diversify it in some off shore accounts in Europe......and its gone."
Stan was like...."What dude I just gave it you ya, 100 bucks."
And the banker replied....."Nope, invested it, it didn't work out, your money is gone"
Later, Kyle got a Platinum visa card with no limit, and payed for all of South Parks sin, I mean debt, and they thought he had died, but he just passed out from swiping the card millions of times putting all of the towns debt on that Visa card with a no spending limit....
Stan took his father's Margarita machine (the metaphoric comparison to things we buy and don't need), in an attempt to get the money back since their economy collapsed, and the store it was bought from sent him to the finance company, they then sent him to Wall Street, then they sent him to D.C., where he discovered a room filled with a bunch of old style wigs on a counsel, and they were deciding the fate of a bank. They chopped off a head of a chicken an tossed it onto a board filled with ideas, and the chicken finally kicked over an died on BAILOUT, so that was the order for the bank, lol....
I laughed and said, O.K, that is how they figure out how to solve the tough problems in Washington....
Edited by Silverhawk74
07/11/2011 6:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:
You have average higher income in USA but if you look closely that goes for some states. For example, California has a lot better economy than, lets say, South Dacota. A few years ago, had Calif been a separate country, it would have had the 7th largest economy in the world. Sadly, that state is now in worse fiscal condition than the USA. Once hugely productive, Calif has been taken from the Makers and given over to the Takers. Business there has been licensed, taxed, and regulated to death and the end result is inevitable. They are circling the drain as we all speak. Only an infusion of either common sense (extremely unlikely) OR HUGE amounts of federal dollars (so they can continue to act foolishly) will stave off default. I very strongly advised on various web sites that every productive person in Calif should sell anything they had there and move to another state while they still can. Other states appreciate those who create products, services, and jobs. Calif only sees them as cash cows to be milked to death and then made into burgers. If I lived there, I would cash out ASAP and move to CO, TX, or AZ... and I would not waste a moments' time doing it! |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
nood2003 sed Quote:
The government needs to quit chasing social security. That will be the #1 cause of government spending and it is entirely unsupportable as it currently stands. If they do keep it, they need to have some kind of cap on it so that you can not get more then a set % (and a smallish one at that) more then you paid into it.
As with many "simple" solutions, this isn't fair. SS is insurance. Pay the premiums on the annuity, and you should get it forever. Legal alien comes to US, works from 52-62, retires. He should get benefits as long as he lives. Is this unfair to the guy who worked 12-65 before retiring? Whose fault was that? Could we have a better plan? Absolutely! 5% of income either must be used to buy an annuity from an approved list of insurers, or the gubmint will do it for you. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:
Could we have a better plan? Absolutely! 5% of income either must be used to buy an annuity from an approved list of insurers, or the gubmint will do it for you. I would be in favor of that, so long as the approved insurance companies were held to VERY conservative investments and were not allowed to spin off into the banking twilight zone (ala AIG) with weird CDOs, derivatives, sliced and diced bundles of securities that no one really knows what's in them, how much they are really worth, or the quality of their credit worthiness, etc. |
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Replies: 51 / Views: 4,771 |
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Posted 07/09/2011 3:13 pm
