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Buying Gold Or Silver For The 1st Time?

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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 08/17/2011  7:23 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

With the increasing interest in diversifying out of dollars by buying PMs (Precious Metals), more new people are wanting to buy PMs. Unfortunately, all many of them have to go on are the ads on TV and in the magazines. For the most part, these are exactly the places where the new to PMs people should NOT be shopping. To help point them in the right direction, here is a short list of where to buy or where not to buy PMs. This is, of course, my own opinion and reasonable people may or may not agree. If anyone has different ideas, by all means post them here.

My list of how and where to buy or not buy PMs would be:

1) Never buy anything PM related from a TV ad, no matter how many
"operators are standing by" to take your call. TV ads are VERY
expensive and if you buy from these folks, you WILL be paying
for those ads and getting fewer ounces for your money because
of it.

2) Never buy PMs from a magazine ad. They are out of date by the
time you see them. PM prices change too quickly for them to
keep up. Also, ads are expensive and their customers will be
paying for them.

3) Never buy PMs or "limited editions" of gold or silver plated
items from a specialty mint. Most of these look nice but are
very low in real value. Anyone trying to sell these items will
find this out but it is better to know it BEFORE buying than
afterwards.

4) Never buy PMs on credit. If you have the money and can afford
to invest in something as volatile as PMs, fine. If not, then
save until you do.

5) Never buy PMs from any company that wants to send you an
"investor kit". These slick brochures cost real money to
produce, warehouse, and distribute. That money comes right
from YOUR pocket. Better to spend it on getting more ounces
and less paper.

6) Always check out any potential PM vendor by doing an on-line
search to see if there are any complaints about the company.
The better on-line PM vendors will almost always be complaint
free or very close to it.

7. Never buy "plated", "simulated", or "copies" of real coins unless
it is a cheap copy that you want as a keepsake. Otherwise, these
are cheap and practically worthless. A copy of a US double eagle
gold coin, for example, costs about $20 these days and has LESS
than $1 worth of gold plating on it.

8. Never buy from a vendor whose phone reps try to get you to buy
something other than what you want. Good service means satisfying
the customers' needs, not steering them into something that they
don't really want. It's YOUR money at stake here, so get what YOU
want and not just what someone else wants to sell to you.

9. Visit your local coin and pawn shops and create relationships
with any of them that seem good to you. Avoid any that use
high pressure sales tactics. A good local shop can be a real
asset to any PM or coin collector. Repeat customers are
valuable to any business and deserve good service. Patronize
any that give good service and have the products you want at
the price you need.

10. Visit any coin shows in your area. Lots of good deals can be
had there but you need to know what you are buying. Read all
the on-line and book info you can and learn before you shop.
Most vendors will be decent people but there are always a few
who are not. Knowing what fair prices are for the coins, bars,
or rounds that you want will be very helpful in getting a good
deal.

11. Good deals may also be found locally via Craig's List but be
cautious when dealing with strangers when you are carrying a
substantial sum of cash. Always meet in a public place. One
with video cameras and lots of people is better than one without
them. Check the items carefully to make sure they are authentic.
Most PM items have specific weights and physical dimensions. An
honest seller will not object to a potential buyer weighing,
measuring, or carefully examining the items for sale before
the purchase. Do your part by being careful with the coins
and wear some thin cotton gloves to protect them.

12. Never buy any PMs from a company that uses a nationally known
person as a shill. You are buying PMs here, not saying that you
approve of this or that person you've seen on TV or heard on the
radio. Besides... these folks get paid for their recommendations
and anyone who buys from these companies pays for this on top of
whatever they spend on the PMS they buy. In some cases, it is
quite a lot too.


I find that APMEX is a great source for the higher grade US 90% silver
coins, Provident is good for bars, rounds, and ASEs, and SilverTowne is
good for silver bars and rounds. I am sure that there are other vendors
out there that are also good. I haven't bought any gold yet so can't
comment on that.

Well, there you have the view from here. If anyone has a different
view or experience, please post.

Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2011  01:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
9+10a) There's a saying "90% of everything is junk". In simplest terms, until you learn how to pick the 10%, the odds are 9:1 against you.

"Junk" can be either over-rated or over priced--paying twice what a perfect item is worth is no different than paying twice what a poor condition piece is worth.

I was looking through some auction pieces which seemed like decent deals, then they had scratches, stains or other problems. A deliberate rip-off? Not necessarily. Pull out a handful of coins and look at them critically. Only a few will be nice, undamaged coins. Collectable coins come from that same universe.

13) Making mistakes is part of attending the Skule of Hard Knox.

14) Buy (and read) the book before you buy the coin.

15) Exists no fire sale on key coin.
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2011  03:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I I were to buy gold or silver bullion, it would be in person, direct from a specialist bullion dealer, where the spread is the least.

If you are into coins as I am, you run into a nice 'problem'. Almost all of my silver and gold coins have significant numismatic value. So there is a numismatic side to consider as a well as a PM value side to consider these days.

That, in previous years, that was not the case for me. I used to consider the acquisition of a coin from a strictly numismatic point of view. High PM values are hampering my ability to collect coins.

The current fast rise in PM values currently is faster than the inflation rate of fiat money, so at least investment in PM's at present is attractive. It is a bit like the rise in share prices before the GFC crash.
Edited by sel_69l
08/18/2011 03:40 am
Pillar of the Community
junior e's Avatar
United States
931 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2011  06:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add junior e to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will say that there are a few high end brochure sending companies that have decent prices. My Brother dealt with Blanchard and their prices were very fair and the coins were high mint state.
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2011  07:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coins were the lowest end of any high mint state. The better stuff went to other dealers/customers.
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2011  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent comments, one and all. Thanks to all who replied. I left out the numismatic end of this because it is the area I know least about. I was sure that others would comment on it... and they did.

Glad to hear that your brother got what he considered a good deal from Blanchard, Junior. I had heard a little about them but had never purchased from them.

I also can't address the "mint state" of any coins because the differences between one or another of them escapes me. An MS65 looks JUST like an MS63 or an MS67 to me, yet the cost of the coins involved can be radically different. I resolve this issue by simply staying with the bullion coins, rounds, and bars.
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junior e's Avatar
United States
931 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2011  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add junior e to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My mistake,Fredd. I forgot for a minute that you know everything. He bought the Buffalo submitted and NGC gave it a MS70. I was unaware of that MS71 that they reserve for everyone else. If you want to look it up the NGC Registration Number is 3496287-131.Also the tube of ASE's that he bought were sealed 2011's, but you get what the mint gives you with that deal. Have a nice day.
Edited by junior e
08/18/2011 9:42 pm
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mkfarm's Avatar
United States
667 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2011  11:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice list.

I have been buying gold and silver since the age of 23. That has been more than a few years ago. The only thing I can really add is don't be in a hurry. I have never ever paid heavy premiums even when buying fractional gold. I have went through my buy list for over 20 years and even on the 1/10 gold AGE I have only paid $5.00 over spot. Look around buy form individuals.

Numismatic coins can be a death trap if you do not know what you are doing. Don't get caught up in the numismatic value that you pay too much.

I'm not a coin collector but I know the difference between bullion and premium numismatic coins. It is like baseball cards you should all remember when that was the quick get rich way.

Few people can show you large gains in coins. Those that can will show you a much larger investment in money to get those gains.

DONE"T BET THE FARM ON PM"S - diversify your money.

I have bought PM's every two weeks for a heck of a long time every pay day. I have seen the price go up and down and then stay the same.

When you logged you total cost for PM's include any shipping cost ect to get a true idea of any gains.

NEVER EVER BUY ON CREDIT OR SPEND MONEY THAT YOU NEED TO MAKE YOUR BILLS PAYMENTS. If you think you can get rich over night you will not win the game of PM's.

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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2011  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I went in my local shop to buy a 1 oz. gold eagle lets say, the price would probably be about 1950, but lets not forget to slap 156 dollars worth of tax on that coin, so actually buying online can be money saved, especially if one selects someone like Provident, APMEX, Silvertowne or even established ebay dealers with 5000 plus positive feed-backs IMO....

I did a search earlier to see what the cheapest Buffalo an AGE I could find in one oz. variety, and I came up with a $1987 free shipping Buffalo, and a $1933 AGE also with free shipping an no tax....

I did see a $1980 gem of a proof Buffalo, but from a dealer with a 95% feedback, so not even an option for me even if I had that kind of dying dollars to convert with % that low on 178 feed-backs seems like....
Edited by Silverhawk74
08/18/2011 11:16 pm
Pillar of the Community
mkfarm's Avatar
United States
667 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2011  11:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkfarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you are paying taxes on gold & silver then move or drive to a state that doesn't have tax on PM's.
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 08/18/2011  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, moving is not an option, as I am a VOL at heart MK, big orange nation for 37 years now an counting....

"Corn don't grow at all on Rocky Top, dirt is too rocky by far! That's why all the folks on Rocky Top get their corn from a jar!" Rof, you know what I am saying Mk, and gas to drive out of state would about equal the RE-dunk-u-lous Tennessee state tax on bullion/coins, lol....
Edited by Silverhawk74
08/18/2011 11:59 pm
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2011  08:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
He bought the Buffalo submitted and NGC gave it a MS70.


That's good! What do the pop reports say about 68 and higher? IIRC, most we 69-70. If you get a 70 out of a group that was mostly 70, you got an average coin.
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junior e's Avatar
United States
931 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2011  10:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add junior e to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fredd there is no grade higher than 70 so if they are all 70 then you are correct. It could be the lowest grade and the highest grade at the same time. I guess the exception would be a grade of MS 70 Proof Like, although I have yet to see that attribution on a Gold Buffalo Bullion Coin (some may exist)! I have seen that grade on the 2009 UHR Double Eagle. However 70 will never be low mint state. Kind of a weird argument anyway. I apologize for my smart aleck remark. There is no place for cheap shots on a nice family forum such as this. My white flag is waving.
Edited by junior e
08/21/2011 2:18 pm
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Ed_B's Avatar
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2011  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There is no place for cheap shots on a nice family forum such as this. My white flag is waving.

Well done, Junior. It takes strength and courage to make an admission like that.
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