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Moderator
 United States
188213 Posts |
Quote: I walked in on a home burglary-in-progress many years ago--not fun. 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9159 Posts |
Interesting read, I'm glad I don't live in an area like that.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
753 Posts |
Quote: Good info! I walked in on a home burglary-in-progress many years ago--not fun. Ive walked in on liquor store robberys, burglarys in progress, home invasions that started with burglarys. One such was a couple working on their apartment and two armed offenders broke in not knowing they were there. They forced them both to the ground at gunpoint "not good" and the woman screamed when they made her start undressing and luckily a neighbor heard it and we got there in time. Both offenders ran down and prosecuted successfully. I have a thousand such story's. A burglary when your NOT home is bad enough but a break in when you are home can be another totally different story. A far worse one. At least back then we had the tools to combat it. In todays world the Police have far less leeway then we did. I'd prowl alleys all day long looking for obvious potential offenders, young and middle aged mostly white males, dirty clothes and hygiene, obvious/apparent signs of drug usage like track marks....ect. They were carrying pry tools and didn't live there so huh are they doing prowling thru alleys with pry tools ? Name check them and if they aren't Lying they'd bounce back with all kinds of priors for burglary, theft, criminal trespass, robbery...ect Most had been in the joint, some multiple times. Back then we had a charge called "possession of burglary tools" or "Poss/stolen property" we'd hit them with just to harass them and get them off the street and hopefully into someone else's District. . But the Lawyers and the Libs hung cameras on us and took that charge away as well. And I'd stop these creeps all day long they were so thick in that District. I'd check crime patterns and we'd be taking in 5 to 10 case reports a day for burglary, or more. You got to know the offenders just by their crime patterns. Some would go in on the prowl into businesses that were closed. Some only did garages. Some only apartments using a specific method. Many, MANY! went specifically for small high value items only. Coin collections, jewelry, bullion, IPhones, cash, handguns, anything they can walk away with and sell quickly. Sell to get high on. I can't stress that enough. They dont steal your coin collection to eat ; They steal it in order to sell it and get high. I never once caught a thief "and I caught thousands" that were stealing to feed their family Some drug dealers will take the stuff in trade for heroin but generally theres a fence instead. We had a few pawn shops that asked few questions but I could never quite get enough evidence on them they knowingly traded in stolen goods from burglary. One dealt with a lot of coins too. On occasion , if we were lucky, we'd lift a print that matched an offender. This would normally at least allow us to charge the guy but prosecution would be sketchy. If we were even luckier the Detectives would get the guy to confess to at least unlawful trespass which basically means being on private property with the intent to commit a theft or other crime. We could roll that up with past convictions and maybe get a Felony charge approved. Guys like you "collectors" make the best victims because you record and store stuff like VAMs or blemishes/details of specific coins or bullion we can use if were able to collect the proceeds in some way. The uniformed officer who respond first makes the initial case report and he probably wont ask for these specifics but the Detectives assigned after will want to know such minute details and will record them on separate reports they make as the investigation continues. We dont just write a report and then forget about the crime. A property crimes Detective will probably know what a VAM or error/blemish on a coin is. If not then tell him. The smallest details are important. We often recover property years later and are able to locate the victims and return it to them. Coin and jewelry details, gun serial numbers, property and serial numbers for as much as you can record should be kept safe in case of a burglary. The Police want as much info as we can get. Unfortunately the Police today can't use the tricks and tools I used to keep these criminals on the run. But they do what they can. Help them by reinforcing your home, safe keeping your coinage, keep exact records safely away from the property, and call your insurance agent to get added insurance on your coins and property. But most of all we want you calling 911 when you see suspicious persons prowling around your neighborhood. If they look like they don't belong there then the Police want to hear about it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2231 Posts |
Thanks for your comments from law enforcement prespective. In 2012 the University of North Carolina did a study, interviewed over 400 prison inmates convcited of burglary. They tended to avoid houses with dogs, neighbors outside and houses with security cams. No home is 100% safe but it's wise to have a few security cams, keep valuables in safe or bank box, don't show off your valuables or tell people you have them at home. If legal where you live, you understand the laws, if your life is threatened, pepper spray or firearm are good for home defense in my opinion. I took photos of all my coins and documented where I bought them, how much I paid. For collectible coins if stolen the coin photos could help ID them if they ended up in a pawn shop, on Facebook, ebay, etc. Last week a local coin/pawn store was raided by police, owners were charged for no record of transactions, selling thousands of dollars worth stolen property.
Edited by livingwater 05/01/2025 12:27 pm
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Moderator
 United States
188213 Posts |
Quote: Last week a local coin/pawn store was raided by police, owners were charged for no record of transactions, selling thousands of dollars worth stolen property. 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
753 Posts |
Oh yeah I forgot about security cameras. Its important to I.D. easy out of sight points points of ingress/egress and harden those. With security cameras most of all.
Security footage on You Tube can yield a lot. If theres a reward most of all I imagine. But the police will most likely recognize them. *** Political commentary removed by the Staff. We do not discuss politics here, we discuss numismatics and related topics. ***
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Forum Dad
 United States
24154 Posts |
Quote: Thanks for your comments from the law enforcement perspective. In 2012 the University of North Carolina did a study, interviewing over 400 prison inmates convicted of burglary. They tended to avoid houses with dogs, neighbors outside, and houses with security cams. No home is 100% safe but it's wise to have a few security cams, keep valuables in a safe or bank box,and don't show off your valuables or tell people you have them at home. If legal where you live, you understand the laws, if your life is threatened, pepper spray or a firearm are good for home defense, in my opinion. They also look for window AC units in bedrooms on the second floor.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
753 Posts |
Some states have "stand your ground" laws which mean you are not required to allow your property to be invaded and your valuables taken. Others have only "prevent loss of life or great bodily harm" laws. I know this sounds obvious and its not political but legal and can land you in a lot of trouble if you shoot without being able to say you are in fear of death or great bodily harm from an offender. In IL. shooting just because someone broke into your house is not legal, either criminally or civilly, and can get you charged or sued or both. You have to be able to say you were in fear of death or great bodily harm. Other states, like in Texas, there is no such standard. Someone breaks in and you can shoot him. ANY use of a firearm is considered intent to kill or inflict great bodily harm. The last thing you want to say is you shot him to protect your coin collection because property can be replaced, life can't be. Like it or not even a burglar has rights. As for myself, and Ive done it many times, I'd just take him into custody if possible. Taking photos of your collection and scanning/making copies of receipts is very wise advice. Thank you Living. Storing them separate from your collection would also be wise. I make copies and store photos on a flash drive I keep hidden. In fact today I have to update my insurance policy with new coins. Sadly bullion bars aren't covered but 80% of my collection is. Luckily in my house someone is almost always home and if nobody is I have a 85lb GSD and he's not welcoming to strangers. Owning a working dog is like having a part time job so if you own such a dog, for him to be effective, he will need exercising and training. We work hard in honest jobs to pay for our collections so we must do everything we can to protect them and our wealth but even more importantly protect ourselves and our loved ones. This is "Blitz", a GSD out of East German Police lineage. Should we ever get a visitor, like a plumber, when the guy leaves and we let Blitz out the first thing he does is check ever single room in the house to make sure they are secure. He's caught strangers on the property before and what he does is arrests them. He's terrifying and he wont attack unless attacked, or we are, but he wont let you move until I come out asnd release him. Nothing is better to protect your coinage then a good dog but it is a lot of work. Luckily I'm a trainer but I'm getting so old he might be my last. 
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Moderator
 United States
188213 Posts |
Good boy! 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6498 Posts |
Silverskunk, great post!
I know the laws around firearms have become ridiculous for home defense, but what's the rules around pepper spray, bear mace, and tasers?
Another option that should be discussed on this thread is how to conceal or secure small valuables like coins so that they cannot be easily removed. Did you ever notice a successful pattern involving safes, locks, or other strategies?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
753 Posts |
Quote: Silverskunk, great post!
I know the laws around firearms have become ridiculous for home defense, but what's the rules around pepper spray, bear mace, and tasers?
Another option that should be discussed on this thread is how to conceal or secure small valuables like coins so that they cannot be easily removed. Did you ever notice a successful pattern involving safes, locks, or other strategies? I had wondered if such a thread was appropriate for this forum but over the years Ive had to record so much coinage, coin sets, bullion, stolen in burglarys and robberys I figured maybe adding my experience was warranted. Regarding use of force for home and personal protection theres just no hard and fast rules. It will be different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. But generally the Law is linked to "reasonableness" . in other words was the use of force and the amount of force such that a "reasonable" person would find appropriate for that situation. For instance a 100 lb female that shoots an unarmed intruder to her home would be judged differently then some guerilla of an ex-cop like me who is also a former competitive shooter. Now if that intruder had a deadly weapon and came at me I'd be justified to shoot him. Deadly force is justified to prevent death or great bodily harm to you or others. As an opinion I'd never be without a firearm for home defense. The exception being children in the house. Pepper spray, bear spray ? These are not considered deadly for but you still have to be able to justify using them. The standard with them is "fear of receiving a battery on yourself or to prevent an unlawful battery on someone else". But be warned. Ive used our strongest pepper mace on violent offenders and had some wipe their face, taste it, and then laugh at me as they came in swinging. Other times its worked fine but never instantly. Also you have to worry about blow back with that stuff. Ive maced violent offenders and had the stream bounce back into my face leaving me even more maced then them. Tasers the same. Less then lethal and a lower standard in using them. But Ive seen them fail plenty of times too. The new ones most of all so whatever you use you had better have a Plan B. I'm an ex Boxer so thats my plan B and I'd recommend for anyone to take some form of martial arts class even if for confidence alone. So protect yourselves, your homes, and your collections. Coins, coin sets, stamp collections, jewelry, bullion, cash , all hidden away ? They go right for this stuff. Ive worked patterns on offenders who would break in and only steal this stuff, the smaller and more valuable the better. Hope I helped. Chicago has a lot of burglary and a lot of violence but burglary can happen anywhere. Most of all in working class neighborhoods. Be safe and take care.
Edited by Silverskunk 05/02/2025 3:50 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3843 Posts |
@Silverskunk
Very informative thread!
Can you give us any insights on what happens to collections after they are taken? Do the perpetrators usually take them to nearby pawn shops/cash for gold/jewelry buyers? Do they often have fences that have connections in the more mainstream coin community? Would identifiable numismatic items get melted to make them harder to prove they were stolen?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
Thank you SS for so many great insights.
I personally witnessed a couple of drug addicts bring two big duffle bags into the LCS to sell. The guy doing the buying asked very few questions. Red flags were everywhere including the dealer telling them certain coins had silver and were worth more. One guy was fidgety while the other guy was just clueless as can be. About a week after the sale, both guys were pictured in the local news for stealing a large coin collection from a very nice area of town. How they knew that there were so many coins for the taking can be speculated about all day long, but clearly the homeowner didn't take enough steps to protect his collection. You can really never be too careful these days.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
Adding additional info to my post above. That same LCS now requires a government ID to sell anything and will take a picture of you as well as the goods being sold. That information is uploaded to law enforcement through a program called Leads Online or something like that. I don't know if it's a city requirement or if they did this because of the above story and very likely other instances of buying stolen collections only to be forced to turn it over.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
753 Posts |
Quote: Very informative thread!
Can you give us any insights on what happens to collections after they are taken? Do the perpetrators usually take them to nearby pawn shops/cash for gold/jewelry buyers? Do they often have fences that have connections in the more mainstream coin community? Would identifiable numismatic items get melted to make them harder to prove they were stolen? Sorry I haven't got back to you on this thread. In patrol I did the initial investigation, called the evidence guys, and then passed it up to the Detectives. On occasion I would get lucky and catch them during an in progress call, or even a lucky "on view" pinch when I'd just be patrolling and just have the pinch fall into my lap. Once I took down an entire crew with just a car stop where the car was loaded with stolen merch. I know on occasion we'd get lucky and hit on a print taken from the domicile but that alone could only prove they were in the house. It would however give grounds for a search warrant and an arrest. This is stuff the Detectives generally do but I have been called to assist them. My guess is untraceable gold, silver, numismatics, are probably bought by pawn and coin shops or traded for drugs from a drug dealer who then does the same. I know records have to be kept but how can you prove its stolen ? Its why on the initial case report I record as much detail as I can about the property taken. The actual recovery rate is not good I can tell you that much. But Chicago is awash with crime and other jurisdictions may have better luck. Drug use and burglary are almost always linked. I worked part time at a methadone clinic and it was like a "whose who" of the area's burglars and retail thieves. With all the restrictions on the Police nowadays its just going to get worse and worse. I wish I had better news to tell you.
Edited by Silverskunk 07/08/2025 5:08 pm
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