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Noodled Some Aussie 20cent Coins - Found 2 With Cuds.

 
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 Posted 07/04/2022  12:31 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi all, managed to noodle a pile of Twenty Cent coins and found a couple with cuds.
1999 20 cent - chin and hair cuds





2018 20 cent - back of hair cuds


The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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 Posted 07/04/2022  02:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CentSation to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
don't think so -- might want to look up the definition of cud.
Those who know what's best for us, must rise and save us from ourselves -- Witch Hunt
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Australia
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 Posted 07/04/2022  03:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add debono to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah they are.

A cud on a coin is a damaged area resembling a blob on the surface of a coin. The cud is raised above the field, and it obliterates the device or inscription where it appears. Cuds are the result of die cracks or die breaks which have become severe. They can also form from die chips where part of the die surface has become damaged and broken away.

Some experts in the coin error-variety hobby insist that for the blob to be called a cud, the damaged part of the die must include part of the edge of the die. Although this is the purest definition, in common numismatic communications you'll see the term "cud" used to describe the blob created by any die chip or serious die crack, regardless of its placement on the die or coin.
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 Posted 07/04/2022  04:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here in the U.S. those are called die chips. As you stated, a CUD always involves the rim.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 07/04/2022  05:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've looked up the definition of a cud relating to the Australian experience: from Rennicks Australian Pre-Decimal & Decimal Coin Errors 1st Edition
CUD ( A three letter acronym meaning "Coin Under Developed")
A lump on a coin, struck by a die from which a piece has broken off.
From the same glossary a die chip is a piece which breaks off of a die.
Metal flowing into the hole created by the die chip creates a lump, which like a blob,is another form of CUD.

Looking at Error-ref.com
Die Chip:
Definition: A small piece (less than 4 square millimeters) that falls out of the die face and has no direct connection to the design rim. The missing piece leaves a void in the die face into which coin metal flows. As a result, the coin shows a featureless lump in the affected area.

Guess it all depends on which forum you're on.

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 Posted 07/04/2022  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to squint to even see them with these large zoomed in pics....meh
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 Posted 07/04/2022  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have to squint to even see them with these large zoomed in pics....meh


Thanks for your help and support. It truly embodies the values of CCF
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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 Posted 07/04/2022  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And seems to me that this site has taught me something new again.
I don't want to be throwing wrong information around so I looked into this some more.
Here is the whole extract from a U.S craft site called The Spruce Crafts


Quote:
A cud on a coin is a damaged area resembling a blob on the surface of a coin. The cud is raised above the field, and it obliterates the device or inscription where it appears. Cuds are the result of die cracks or die breaks which have become severe. They can also form from die chips where part of the die surface has become damaged and broken away.

Some experts in the coin error-variety hobby insist that for the blob to be called a cud, the damaged part of the die must include part of the edge of the die. Although this is the purest definition, in common numismatic communications you'll see the term "cud" used to describe the blob created by any die chip or serious die crack, regardless of its placement on the die or coin.

More appropriately, it is really determined by the size of the damage on the coin die. Small imperfections are actually called "died chips." These can happen anywhere on the surface of the die and therefore result and imperfections anywhere on the surface of the resulting coin. Where a significant piece of the die breaks away, these result in a "cud."


Forever more they will be refered to by me as "died chips", though I may need to check with other members to see if they are too small to be of interest.
Any I find that involve the rim will be declared as "rim cuds"

Thanks all for your feedback
Cheers TT
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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Australia
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 Posted 07/06/2022  04:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add debono to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. Some of The attitude from more senior members beggars belief! A coin sharing forum is about sharing I would have thought. Not to worry ttk. The yanks can't even spell colour correctly! Fight fight fight. Lol.
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 Posted 07/06/2022  06:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While we are on this type of subject, how about cent vs penny
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
Edited by John1
07/06/2022 09:15 am
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 Posted 07/06/2022  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here in Australia, everyone calls any die chip a "cud". It's often spelled "CUD", with all-caps as if it were an acronym, though it actually isn't (sorry, but that Renniks quote about CUD standing for "coin under developed" is just plain ridiculous, an obvious folk etymology - a die chip is not "under development" in any possible sense of that phrase).

This Australian mis-usage of the term is largely due to the late Ian McConnelly, an enthusiastic and prolific writer about errors and varieties in the Australian coin magazines for several decades, who was notoriously lax when it came to the established definitions of error terms. He basically invented his own terminology, which was only loosely based on the established terminology, and since he was the only person writing about errors, everyone who became interested in errors through his articles copied him. And yes, that Renniks book was also edited by McConnelly, which is why it perpetuates his bogus terminology.

This also explains why even experienced collectors get the terms "error" and "variety" in Australia mixed up. McConnelly persisted in using the terms interchangeably, particularly with things that were clearly classifiable as "errors" (like bitten rims, mis-strikes and brockages), calling them "varieties" instead. Of course, over on eBay, "errors" are perceived as being more valuable than "varieties", so that word is used instead.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 07/06/2022  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
John1-Everyone in the USA should know it's a cent
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 Posted 07/07/2022  02:21 am  Show Profile   Check ryurazu's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ryurazu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
pew pew
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 Posted 07/07/2022  04:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well that was 30 minutes of my life I'll never get back.
Clearly the coins that I took the time to input into CCF are of no importance.
I'd like to thank all of the terminology police for hijacking the topic.
Cheers TT


The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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 Posted 07/07/2022  04:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well that was 30 minutes of my life I'll never get back.
Clearly the coins that I took the time to input into CCF are of no importance.
I'd like to thank all of the terminology police for hijacking the topic.


Not sure what sort of responses you were looking for ttkoo because your post appeared to be more along the line of a 'show and tell' rather than asking for input.

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 Posted 07/07/2022  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Basil to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This also explains why even experienced collectors get the terms "error" and "variety" in Australia mixed up. McConnelly persisted in using the terms interchangeably, particularly with things that were clearly classifiable as "errors" (like bitten rims, mis-strikes and brockages), calling them "varieties" instead. Of course, over on eBay, "errors" are perceived as being more valuable than "varieties", so that word is used instead.


I don't disagree but despite his foibles he was refreshing and down to earth as far as Coin 'experts' go.To be frank many in Aust. are self appointed weirdo's that don't seem to have any other interests.

I was in contact with Ian in the years before his passing regarding the 1933 half overdate and found him very helpful including his thoughts on the 1930 Penny regarding an article my Niece is writing.
He was never arrogant or forceful in expressing his opinion and always allowed room for doubt.
A good eg were Coins minted by Heaton with no 'H'," probable filled Die" in his books,despite his contemporaries leaving no doubt,i guess they were there and saw them being minted.
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