Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Live Coin auctions starting as low as $1
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Now Canada Has Its Version Of The CAC Sticker.

Next Page | Last 15 Replies
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 1,236Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member

Canada
75 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2022  04:09 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add recollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
next lets get cad stickers on top of cac stickers, and then lets go for cae stickers over cad stickers over cac stickers-- just to make really, really, really sure of the grade that the professional grading company, who is supposed to hire professional coin graders, correctly grades the coin. oh and dont forget to charge a triple premium on the coin so the "poor mans" graded coins which are only graded by one professional company with experts will not be able to sell their coins unless they play the grading game too. after all, workers from grading companies of grading companies of grading companies have to eat too.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
4634 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2022  06:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it IS getting ridiculous isn't it?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10573 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2022  07:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm all for having a 'Coin Community Forum' (CCF) approval seal wrapped around the bottom end of holders. Approvals would be granted by a committee of 9 members of the CCF drawn at random each year. The pool of members would be pulled from those with 500-1500 posts at the time of the drawing...
Valued Member
Canada
476 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2022  07:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wallyb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Where are you reading this....post a link please.
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
74977 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2022  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll sticker your coin if you'll sticker mine!
Valued Member
Canada
75 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2022  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add recollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i see all kinds of excellent business opportunities here. how about making a deal with charlton to produce more price guides for "number of stickers that confirm a grade". there will be 2, 3, or 4 additional price entries for each grade depending on how many re-graded stickers there are for every coin. sweet. and new grading schools can be opened across the country teaching the additional expertise that the experts need to follow, and the additional, additional expertise that those in the next level up school need to follow to become qualified to work for a grading company's grading company, all with the promise of higher pay of course.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
811 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2022  03:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tripoli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm so old, I remember when it was buy the coin, not the holder.....now it's buy the holder and the sticker......oh well, it;s ok, if someone else has paid for the grading and sticker, because I'm only paying for the coin.

(and let's not get sucked into the OGH PCGS or two digit ICCS vortex)
Valued Member
Taiwan
405 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2022  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Everest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
recollector: Can you post some information that actually relates to your Topic ? Where are you reading this ?
Thank you
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
4634 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2022  08:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's 2 articles that I have seen and, even though one says Burlington, it is NOT me:

https://cnascoin.ca/

https://coinweek.com/education/coin...in-stickers/

https://canadiancoinnews.com/canadi...nce-service/

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...sticker.html

I think that it's getting ridiculous for people wanting you to get your wallet out to try to prove "my dog's better than your dog, la la la" so the tune goes.
Edited by okiecoiner
11/14/2022 08:08 am
Valued Member
Taiwan
405 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2022  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Everest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you okiecoiner, much appreciated.
Valued Member
Canada
199 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2022  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Levaril to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to be the devils advocate here. Probably because I really like being heaped with abuse. Lol.

If you look down to the US you can see that CAC is obviously VERY popular. I think there are a few reasons for that.

I believe that one of them is that the main grading companies all have a degree of inconsistency to them that some people feel the need for some reassurance. I don't buy US coins but I have to say I've never really seen a CAC approved coin that I disagreed with. (I'm sure there are some, but I don't think very many) I feel like they've done a good job in only stickering coins that are obviously better than average for the grade. They've also done a tremendous job of marketing!

One of the other things that is different now from even 20 or 30 years ago is a lot more coins get bought without having the coin in front of you. Online sales, whether through auctions, ebay, IG, FB or just basic websites have surged. We all know that pictures can be deceiving online and problems can be minimized or even eliminated in carefully taken pictures. That CAC sticker tells an online buyer in the US that the pictures aren't deceiving and they are going to be happy with the coin, not upset at some unseen hairlines.

I am also going to assume there are more high end buyers out there who don't know the grades as well as most high end buyers did in the old days. Those buyers like TPG's for the assist they get in giving them an idea of the grade and I'd imagine they really appreciate the CAC sticker telling them that the coin in that holder is above average and represents the stated grade quite well.

I think it's easy as an older, experienced coin buyer and seller to look down your nose at TPG's and companies like CAC, but most people can't grade as well as you. A lot of them know just enough to be dangerous. It's easy to say that they should just learn, but if you live in a remote community like I do that has NO coin dealers or anything to help with that, how do you do that? You can do some online but a lot of that can be misleading or even wrong. I'm learning to grade as I go and I make lots of mistakes. I look back on old posts from years ago and and shudder at how stupid I was, but we all have to learn somehow. I don't have the ability to go to coin shows all year long like some of you have and do. I think it's fair to recognize that some people don't have a lot of opportunity to learn except slowly over time and let them appreciate the TPG's and the CAC's or CNAS's of the world. It may not be for you, but I don't think it's fair to say that they are a waste of money for everyone just because that's true for you. For every experienced collector/grader out there like some of you there are hundreds or even thousands of modestly educated collectors out there with a lot less knowledge who appreciate the help. And obviously buyers in the US agree because they can easily show how valuable a CAC sticker can be on a coin that has one. They are worth way more than they cost on virtually any coin they are on.

So in Canada I have no idea how CNAS will do. I'm sure, much like CAC in the beginning, it will be a very slow process to get established. It will obviously take years, and maybe even decades. I think our market is much smaller than the US, so it's not possible for it to be as large as CAC is in the US, but I think it can be an assist to modestly educated Canadian buyers, particularly those who shop online.

I do know the guys who operate CNAS, although not well. I've met them at one coin show. They are young and very passionate about coin collecting and grading and I give them kudos for putting themselves out there and trying to get established in our market. I will also say that despite being less than half my age, they are much, much better at grading coins than I am. I've heard people denigrate them because they are young, but they have put way more into learning how to grade coins well than 99% of the collectors out there and they know what they are doing. They have an eye for premium raw coins that I could only dream of. If you want to form an educated opinion of what they do, get to know them.

By all means don't use their service if it's not for you, but I don't think it's fair to put down what they are doing when there are lots of collectors out there who could use the help.
Valued Member
Canada
476 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2022  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wallyb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
100% right Levaril! I chuckle at many of the 'experts' on this very forum who disagree vehemently on grading opinions yet are quick to criticize many collectors who choose to put a little faith in TPG's. Grading coins is very clearly a subjective art form. If a buyer feels more confident in a certified opinion who can blame him or her. You nailed it with your observations regarding on-line purchases where buyers are not able to hold the coin until after the purchase has been made. It's a new world and in Canada I for one would welcome independent certification of an ICCS or CCCS coin.
Valued Member
Canada
313 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2022  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andy888 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well said Levaril. I have never used CAC or CNAS but I do believe they add value and confidence to people who buy coins online (which is how most coins are transacted these days). I've never met the CNAS guys in person but I have talked to them on instagram and they are all very well versed young men. I know Will a bit better than the others and have more confidence in his opinion than I do in CCCS, ICCS or PCGS's opinion regarding grade, strike, etc.. In particular, you would be hard pressed to find someone with more specimen knowledge than him. These guys are helping to evolve our beloved hobby and for this I am thankful!
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
4634 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2022  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For a high end collector, I think that CAC idea is very valuable. However, it all depends on how the concept is sold and who wants to start using them. Much like TPG's were marketed 20 years ago that grew to almost a "must". Many newbies think that every coin that they own HAS TO BE cert'd, where the cost of the certification costs more than the coin will ever be worth. The way things are now, people think that they have to cert a VF-30 Vicky cent to be able to keep or sell it. CAC and the "stars" outfit and now the Canadian one have their place, but certainly not for everyone. It's a very slender slice of the collecting community.
Valued Member
Canada
199 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2022  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Levaril to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that certification makes no sense until you hit a certain threshold value. For ICCS I try not to send anything I think will be worth less than $100. For PCGS it's at least $200, unless it's something that I want in a slab to protect it better because I really like it or it's to fill out a registry set that I want to complete. So yes, a lot of coins fall under those values. Most even. I'm not sure it's quite as slender a slice of the market as you think though. A lot of PL and SP coins in higher grades are worth a lot of money these days. MS coins in even lower MS grades are worth a fair bit. If it's going into an auction it pretty much has to be in some kind of holder to realize it's full value these days. Canadian coins are selling at auction every week in the hundreds or thousands depending on which auctions happen. Most bidders will be remote and not seeing anything in hand and will rely on the TPG's opinion on that coin. They have to recognize it's just an opinion and even more so have to be at least somewhat knowledgeable about the differences between TPG's for Canadian coins. ICCS ignores light cleaning and when they grade cameo they only look at the obverse. They also net grade occasionally. PCGS doesn't have a problem with dipped coins but will detail a variety of things they don't like. They tend to be decent at grading MS/PL/SP 63+ coins but aren't that great at AU or lower typically. (they overgrade them mostly) NGC overgrades almost any coin they touch, but occasionally gets it right. Don't count on it being right though when you buy without having it in hand. Older holders are typically (but not always) more conservatively graded from all TPG's. As always, buyer beware. Something like CAC or CNAS can help with a bit of the whole buyer beware thing IMHO when you buy remotely.

So personally I tend to buy coins with enough value that they should be slabbed. I like PCGS. I have some I keep in ICCS flips too, but mostly PCGS. That's my personal preference more than anything else. And yeah if you are collecting a group of coins to just have a whole set and a lot of them are worn $10-$50 coins then there is absolutely no point in sending those to any TPG. Complete waste of money. Keep them in a nice album and enjoy them up close and personal. If you prefer your higher value coins raw so you can take them out to admire without the slab getting in the way, more power to you. There is definitely no reason to get anything graded if you don't want it graded.
Valued Member
Canada
75 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2022  12:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add recollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
im not an old collector nor do I grade well; and there are no coin stores around me so I have to buy completely on the internet. but I will judge cac and any other grading company of a grading company as not needed, and in fact harmful, as it needlessly complicates an already complex hobby and introduces a whole new valuation system on the existing one. so , we are to believe that PCGS, ICCS and NGC often make mistakes, while cac never does. we also have anacs at the bottom of the heap why? because they make more mistakes than the other 2? because their holder is not as attractive? so why not just have cac grade the coins instead of grading a grading companys coins? then they will become the new PCGS and command the premium until cac itself starts to be questioned. then another company will come along and charge a premium over cac. in the end it will be one big mess and tiers of values will be heaped upon every single coin. you think that will help the hobby with new collectors? dont think so. as I am a new collector and it certainly does not help me to have to pay a ridiculous premium on a coin that was graded corectly by one of the other companys.
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 1,236Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.





Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2023 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2023 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.44 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: